Re: How to Make Chicken Cacciatore (was: phonetics by guesswork)

En réponse à Christian Thalmann :


>"Oeil" is [9j].
Yep, and the "l" is part of the tetragraph. The full "oeil" is [9j]. 
Basically "oe" and "eu" are pronounced the same in French, and thus "oeil" 
and "euil" too :) . Note that "oeil" [9j] is a funny word in that its 
plural is "yeux" [j2] ;)) .

>   I never quite noticed that French people
>use that for German "eu", but it makes sense.
That's not the description my Teach Yourself German gives. It fives 
"pseudo-phonetic" descriptions using French orthography and bold letters to 
indicate the main part of a diphtongue (indicating that the second part 
mustn't be pronounced like a full vowel). It invents letters for sounds not 
existing in French and that cannot be approximated nicely. [x] is thus 
represented as "r with dot below" and [C] as "ch with dot below h". Long 
vowels are represented with an arrow under them :) .

All this to say that the way German "eu" was described was using the 
combination "oeu" with a bold "o". I always understood it to mean [O9], 
with 9 being an offglide. And hearing German spoken only confirmed my view :) .


>The High German realization of the diphthong seems more like
>[OH] or [O9] to me.
So it seems My particular book (l'allemand en 90 leçons et en 90 jours) was 
quite correct (using only the book, I once reached a point where I couldn't 
utter a single sentence, but could understand people speaking Germans to 
each other without much difficulty. Quite a feat, knowing I bought the book 
without tapes :) ). It's one of those cases where a comparison works, 
because French and German sounds are often quite comparable, and the 
comparison didn't include sounds that didn't exist in German (I had to find 
some outside help to learn them. Had I bought the tape too, I wouldn't have 
had too :) ).

Christophe Grandsire.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang. 

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