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Re: French reform (Re: C.Thalmann, & #1)

From:# 1 <salut_vous_autre@...>
Date:Wednesday, April 13, 2005, 20:35
Jean-François Colson wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:15 PM, J. 'Mach' Wust wrote: > >>The weak schwa vowel is not transcribed because its occurence is >>predictable. > >Not always. For example pneu is pronounced /pn2/, but many people >erroneously add a schwa: /p@n2/ > >>If required (in poetry), it may be transcribed as if it were /9/. > >It's true that /9/ and /@/ tend to merge in present French, but there are >still dialects where they are different phonemes. I have the feeling that >merging /2/ and /9/ would be less problematic, but that's perhaps because >they are often written with the same digraph: |eu|.
For me, it is more plausible to write /2/ and /9/ with the same phoneme considering they are phonemicly the same But in my dialect, /9/ and /@/ are never merged, mixed, changes, confused or something else. The first times I've heard it, I've took a long time to understand what was the link between "femme" and "meuf" in Verlan before tinking that some may pronounce "femme" as /fam9/ instead of /fam/ or at least /fam@/. In fact Verlan isn't used around here and hearing it is only possible in french movies: lot of people has never been awared of it. To get back to the subject, I don't think I've ever heard "pneu" pronounced /p@n2/, or maybe in some jokes by some humorist that was imitating an accent.. But I also think that /@/ needs it's own phoneme because if there are really two following consonants like /bR/ or /dw/, how do one know if there's a schwa or not? or if there are 3 consonants and that there's a schwa between two of them, how might one know between which? I can't think of an example where putting a schwa or not might change the meaning but there are probably some. - Max