Re: Word usage in English dialects // was Slang, curses and vulgarities

Tristan McLeay wrote:

> >> > I don't agree with this: "a chicken" is perfectly grammatical to
> >> > me in the context of "Shall I go down the shop and get a chicken
> >> > for tea?"
> >>
> >> Yes, well, the article's not the only thing wrong with that
> >> sentence...
> >> (I'd never use the word 'shall' unless I was purposefully affecting a
> >> British style.
> >
> > This is very interesting. I assure you that 'shall' is alive and
> > well in questions over here.
>
> Well, I'm not entirely sure (with no context) what the question is
> asking, so I couldn't even tell you whether I'd say instead 'Should I
> go...?', '(So) I'll go...?', 'Do you what chicken for dinner?', 'Do you
> want me to go down to the shop and get the chicken for dinner?' etc.
> All of them seem possible translations, I imagine, but which you mean I
> can't guess. ('Will I go...?', the obvious translation, doesn't seem to
> make sense, but that just might be because it's devoid of context.)
It's the same as "should" in the sense of "Would you approve of this
course of action?" except that it also implies a promise that if you
say yes then I will.

Besides, "shall" is easier to say than "should" :-)

An example in dialogue might be:

"So, do you have anything planned for tea?"
"Er, no I don't, but shall I go down the shop and get a chicken?"
"Yeah, sounds good to me."

> > (I've never thought about it before, but it's worth asking whether
> > the same is true of other English dialects internationally: i.e.
> > that "shall" is common in questions but only in questions, so that
> > hardly anybody would say "I shall go" but most people might say
> > "Shall I go?".)
>
> I'd be very surprised if it was. It seems so limited a context to use
> it. Do you only use it with 'I'? 'we'? or any subject?
Only I and we. You can't really make implied promises on behalf of
other people. :-)

Naturally, I'm surprised that you'd be surprised.

You have my permission to be surprised that I'm be surprised that
you'd be surprised, if you like.

> > I've emailed my uncle who lives in Melbourne in order to find out
> > whether he (or perhaps the younger generation members of the family)
> > agree with you about this sentence.
>
> I'm sure they will (at least the younger generation, but I'd be
> surprised if he didn't think of it as odd either).
We'll see. I never take anything you tell me about Victorian dialect
for granted. :-)

Adrian.