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Re: Allophones Question

From:David Barrow <davidab@...>
Date:Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 16:12
Spanish has [z] as an allophone of /s/ in words like "desde"

compare "desde" with "peste"

David Barrow

Christophe Grandsire wrote:

> En réponse à Muke Tever <mktvr@...>: > > > > > Spanish for example has /s/ but no /z/, even when it has /D/ vs /T/ > > (in > > castillian) and /x/ vs /G/. > > > > Not really. Castillian Spanish has neither /D/ nor /G/. It has [D] and [G] as > allophones respectively of /d/ and /g/ between vowels, but not as phonemes. So > phonemically the oppositions you're talking about are between /d/ and /T/, > and /x/ and /g/, not quite what you meant. Still, Castillian Spanish is a valid > example, in that it has phonemic voice distinction in stops, but not in > fricatives (so it has /t/ and /d/, /s/ but no /z/. It has /k/, /g/ and /x/ but > no /G/ - [G], again, doesn't count as it's an allophone of /g/ -). > > > Ancient Greek also had /s/ but not exactly /z/ at one time. > > The elusive zeta! ;))) Wasn't it /z/ at least at some time in some dialect? :)) > > Latin too > > [I think > > it is contagious...] > > > > Latin is exactly like Spanish, in that it had phonemic voiceless fricatives > (/f/, /s/ and /h/) but no voiced ones (consonantic V was /w/, pronounced [w] > always, and Z existed only in Greek borrowings, and I'm not sure it would be > pronounced [z] if it wasn't in Greek itself). > > > And dont forget the many languages with /l m n r/ and not their > > voiceless > > counterparts... > > > > I think voiced fricatives and voiceless approximants must be somehow marked, > i.e. somehow more "complex" than their voiceless and voiced equivalents to be > commonly missing in sound inventories, even those which have phonemic voice. > > Anyway, it's perfectly normal for languages to have more distinctions among > stops than among fricatives and/or approximants. > > Christophe. > > http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr > > Take your life as a movie: do not let anybody else play the leading role.