Sally Caves <scaves@...> wrote:
>PART I. FOR CELTIC CONLANGERS:
Mimas'kar
(Not applicable)
>PART II: INSPIRATION BY TOLKIEN (tangential to the questions on
inspiration
>by Celtic languages):
>How many of you were inspired to invent a language because of your exposure
>to Tolkien?
I was making up alphabets and little bits of language from very very young.
Tolkien was not the initial inspiration, but he did inspire me to keep
going.
>How many of you have a constructed world, and, if so, does it include some
>of the races we associate with Celtic or Scandinavian mythology? (Elves,
>Dwarves, medieval societies of humans, Faeries or Fays? Selkies?
Wizards?)
Yes, I have a constructed world, and no to the rest.
>How many of you were inspired to examine Welsh, Hebrew, or Finnish because
>of your examination of Tolkien?
I was inspired to examine those for the reason of my curiosity about
languages.
>How many of you were inspired to invent a conlang or a conculture because
of
>some influence OTHER than Tolkien?
Yes.
>How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you engage in
>Roll-Playing Games?
I don't.
>PART III: NON-CELTIC CONLANGERS:
<snip>
>What is your name and what do you call your conlang?
Mike Ellis. My languages include Rhean, Omurax, Tolborese and Lididric, in
descending order of how much I've worked on them.
>So what is unappealing about the Indo-European model for conlanging? Or
>Tolkien's Elvish?
Rhean rips lots of concepts from Indo-Eurpopean languages. And like Tolkien
I put the sounds I like in my languages (although the four I listed have
very different phonologies from each other).
>How did you start conlanging? What was your initial inspiration?
It started with alphabets when I was very young. Finding out THAT other
languages write in other alphabets blew my mind. "Wow, that looks cool". I
was also interested in code alphabets and code words and eventually started
making my own.
>Did you know about Tolkien's inventions? Read the books, the appendices?
>etc. Or not?
Well I do now!
>What language types have you modeled your language(s) after?
Rhean rips features I like from everywhere and mixes them with a priori
features. Even its vocabulary is a mix of stolen words and made-up ones.
Tolborese gets some ideas from Bantu languages. The other ones are more a
priori than these.
>What features of these languages or language types appeal to you?
I like anything that is at first "counter-intuitive" to an English speaker
like myself. But Rhean grammar has become intuitive to me now.
>Some of you, and I'm thinking in particular of a conversation I had with
And
>Rosta, are not interested in producing a language that is
> "mellifluous"--that "mellifluousness" is a thing to be avoided in your
>conlang and especially as it is associated with Tolkien's Elvish or copiers
>of Elvish. Is this so? Why?
I have a very different idea of what sounds good in a language than Tolkien
had. I dislike it when people suggest that there is some objective criteria
for what sounds good in a language (and I have seen this). Think of someone
telling you that sweet fruits are the *only* tasty food. Rhean is an onion,
and I like onions.
>For how many of you, though, is beauty and/or efficiency a factor in your
>language? Or elegance? How would you define these terms?
Efficiency: I always like it when I can translate an English sentence by
only a few words in Rhean. But I made Tolborese so cross-marked that one
always has to think a few words ahead and a few words behind, so it's
less "efficient". Omurax is "elegant", but also ridiculous.
>For how many of you is the "exotic" a desired feature of your invented
>language?
Definitely.
>How many of you invent a non-human language? And if so, how alien are its
>sounds and constructions?
Not yet.
>Do you prefer inventing an a posteriori language or an a priori language?
>In other words, how many of you invent a language wherein you base it
>closely on a natural language (Arabic, Tagalog) or a combination of
>languages, and how many others of you invent a language from, well,
scratch?
>(if that can be done.)
Bit of A, bit of B.
>How many of you invent a language based on a particular type (Ergative,
>Accusative, Trigger, etc.)?
Rehan is Accusative. Tolborese is Ergative. Omurax has no verbs. Lididric
is Accusative, or perhaps Active since it deals with passives and
intransitives a bit oddly.
>To what degree is difficulty and irregularity of language important to you
>in your conlang? what natural language eccentricities (or efficiencies) do
>you like and try to reproduce?
Irregularity makes a language seem "realistic", and there's a bit of it in
Rhean and Lididric. Tolborese and Omurax will be difficult enough without
it.
>To what degree is accessibility, efficiency, and regularity important to
>your conlang? What natural language "faults" are you correcting?
Not really.
>How many of you invent logical languages?
Jumbo shrimp, military intelligence...
>How many of you have invented non-Tolkienesque or non European concultures
>and what are they like?
I have. Rhea is kind of European but kind of Asian. The Ishtol Republic is
like a mix of cold-war and future American. Tolborese and Omurax culture
are historically linked, but they are something very different. Like dead
ancient cultures resurrected by fanatics. All of these are human cultures
on an alternate Earth.
>How many of you started out by pulling words out of the air, originally?
>How many of you have chosen a more methodic form of vocabulary building?
>I.e., how have you gone about setting up the framework for your words and
>your grammar?
I started with the first, and eventually moved to the second.
>PART IV: THE LUNATIC SURVEY REVISITED (because we are all "fous du
>langage," according to Yaguello and other French critics.
>Why do you conlang? Who will speak it? Read it? What's the point?
What's
>the beauty? what's the intellectual draw?
I feel like it. Damn near nobody will speak it or read it. The cultures and
languages appear in a comic series I'm working on, but the language will be
almost invisible. Rhean actually started as a gibberish to "look cool" on
signs and stuff in the background! The reader will never even have to know
there is a language behind it.
>To what would you compare a conlang? Is it a miniature? Is it a model?
Is
>it a tapestry? Is it an act of obsession and madness? <G> Or is it a
>communicable language?
I don't know!
>To what extent is the opacity or "alterity" of your language something that
>pleases you? In other words, the sounds and the script have, even for you,
>a quality of being foreign, and this delights.
Very much. All of them are meant to be foreign.
>This is a difficult question: how is it that a word sounds "right" to you?
>We recently discussed this. To what extent are you finding righter, better
>words for the world in your conlang? (Perhaps unanswerable).
I'm not sure HOW, but I know THAT the words must sound right.
>How many of you are fictive map-makers, designers of fictive floor plans,
>fictive yachts, fictive star-ships, world-builders, calligraphers,
>cartoonists, etc.? (These pursuits have been associated with conlanging.
I
>'ve done most of them.)
Cartoonist. And also I design the look of cities, vehicles, clothing, etc.
But I've vowed to never make a map of Rhea. It's meant to take place on
Earth, but I don't want to figure out where it is.
>How many of you have a special script in your conlang?
See Omurax:
http://www.geocities.com/bluetextblack/omurax.jpg
Plus the abandoned languages I toyead around with when I was younger --
Barse, Grengarlhas, Karsi -- all had scripts.
>If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
system?
>In other words, do you use unconventional letters to represent sounds?
>Why?
Rhean uses a modified Roman alphabet with some haceks and umlauts. It was
an on-paper-only conlang, and when it migrated to the computer I discovered
how difficult it is to get k-hacek and g-hacek. These diacritical marks
were part of it from the "gibberish" stage, because they contributed to
the "exotic" look of it.
>This is a question Heather asked, but I also asked it four years ago: how
>many of you write in your language? What do you write?
I scribble in Rhean. I write bullshit. I'll think of ways to say some
humorous thing I've just heard on TV and I'll scribble that down. Anything.
>How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
>purpose?
I've written a tune for the national anthem of Rhea. Needs lyrics though.
>How many of you started conlanging when you were a teenager and have stuck
>to the same language over many years? Why?
Started earlier than that, and played with a few languages. But I've been
stuck mainly with the one for a couple of years. I have to force myself to
develop the others more.
>How many of you change conlangs regularly, developing structures for many
>languages but not sticking with any one for very long? Why?
Not I.
>For how many of you does your language function as a spiritual instrument?
>This is a deeply personal question--let me give you an example. When I
>first started inventing "Tayonian" in my early teens, what I wrote were
>spells and prayers. They had a talismanic quality. Does that ring a bell
>for anybody?
I am one of the least spiritual people you could ever meet. Just wasn't
wired that way, I guess. But religion and spirituality fascinate me, and
are an important part of the cultures I make.
>For how many of you was your language at least at one stage of its making
>meant to fool others, or to write secret diaries? (Me, waving my hand).
This script is for my personal notes:
http://www.geocities.com/bluetextblack/ekir.jpg
And a lot of my initial playing with "codes" as a child involved a similar
fascination with its potential for secrecy.
>How many of you can speak your language, at least to yourself and your pet?
>child? spouse? <G> To what extent?
I have learned the grammar of Rhean pretty well. I have to keep looking
words up though.
>How many of you have put up websites where your language can be showcased?
>If so, what is the website address?
When I put one together, the people on this list will be the first to know!
>How many of you are comfortable talking to your boss, your professors, your
>family members about this pursuit? How many of you have received
>condescending or other negative responses to your disclosure? (I have.)
Or
>even been called "pathological"?
Not yet. It's on a "need-to-know" basis.
>For how many of you is the damning statement "better to learn real
languages
>than invent private ones" a criticism you have encountered? What would be
>your response to such a remark?
They're right, in pragmatic terms. But by that standard, learning to repair
vehicles is "better" than learning to play a musical instrument or to
paint. Two resposes for this one:
1. Not all pursuits are utilitarian
2. The two are not mutually exclusive (proceed to tell them to go to hell,
in a natlang)
>PART V: GENERAL DEMOGRAPHICS:
>
>What is your age (optional--and can be general: 30-40, for instance).
22
>What is your gender?
Male.
>What is your nationality and your native language?
Canadian, English.
>What natural languages do you speak or have studied?
Various degrees of competence in French, Spanish, Japanese, Dutch.
>How many of you have chosen a profession in linguistics because of your
>interest in inventing languages? Or plan a profession in linguistics?
I might.
>What have you learned from conlanging?
That this hobby is more common than one's initial impression, and less
common than one's second impression upon discovering the first.
>What texts on language and linguistics have you consulted to help invent
>your language?
A lot of grammars of existing languages, mostly.
>Do you know of anyone who has not connected with the Internet or the List
>who has invented a language?
No.
>Can you give me a short sample of your language with interlinear
description
>and translation?
Okienie böz s'ulak nap s'ig'om menuzabza.
illegal-ADV border(-ACC) cross-INF(-ACC) by death-INST punish-PASS
Crossing the border illegally is punished by death.
Or check out the Rhean entry in the six-and-a-halfth relay:
http://www.geocities.com/bluetextblack/rhean1
>Would you object to my mentioning your conlang/and or your name in my talk?
>I will be discreet about some of the more personal questions you answered.
Go for it.
M