Re: New Survey: Celtic Conlangs (and other lunatic pursuits)

Sally Caves wrote:
>PART I.  FOR CELTIC CONLANGERS:
>
>Have you based your conlang(s) wholly or partially on a Celtic language?
>If so, on which?  or combined with which?
A posteriori from Gaulish, orthography and "feel" based on a mixture of the
Brythonic langs- Cornish and Breton (mainly) and Welsh.

>What is your name and what do you call your conlang(s)?
Dan Jones. I call the conlang Arvorec. Just so's you don't get them the
wrong way round.

>When did you start it/them?
Almost four years back, but under a different name (for the conlang).

>Are you still working with it/them or have you abandoned it or them?
Still very much working with it!

>What Celtic features have you borrowed?  What is the structure of your
>language?  Be specific.
Following the "Celtic" criteria set down in the Routlidge "The Celtic
Languages":
VSO word order
initial mutations
conjugated prepositions
preverbal particles
periphrastic verb constructions (which more extrapolate from Gaulish than
follow Insular Celtic models *here*)
penultimate stress
head-first syntax (mainly)

>What innovations did you introduce?  (new constructions, perhaps a new
>script, etc.)
The verbal system in some respects is an "innovation"-there's more than one
conjugation and the passive survives (as Old Irish, not Welsh). The future
and conditional tenses are innovations, borrowing more from Latin
constructions than Insular Celtic. The use of the subjunctive also differs.
Yes there is a "native script", too.

>What features of Celtic languages (or a particular Celtic language)
>initially inspired or intrigued you?
For me one of the initial pulls to make Arvorec was the beauty of the
orthography (I'm a complete sucker for that). Also, having grown up around
Welsh and Breton the "essence" of the Celtic languages was already there.
The main pull was the "what-if" factor, though- how would Gaulish have
developed if it hadn't been made extinct.

>How many of you are also scholars of Celtic languages?   Scholars of other
>languages?
Define "scholar", Sally ;o) Yes, I've made an extensive study of the Celtic
languages, but not in any formal or institutionalised context. I've studied
the Romance languages in that context, though.

>How were you introduced to them?
My mother introduced me to Welsh, my father's mother to Breton. I grew up
speaking them (badly ;o) )

>PART II:  INSPIRATION BY TOLKIEN (tangential to the questions on inspiration
>by Celtic languages):
>
>How many of you were inspired to invent a language because of your exposure
>to Tolkien?
I wasn't.

>How many of you based your conlang on one of Tolkien's languages, or your
>conculture in Middle Earth?
No.

>How many of you have a constructed world, and, if so, does it include some
>of the races we associate with Celtic or Scandinavian mythology? (Elves,
>Dwarves, medieval societies of humans, Faeries or Fays?  Selkies?  Wizards?)
I do have a grouping of humans in a constructed world that for convenience
I term "elves". However, my conworlds tend to follow Guy Gavriel Kay's
model rather than Tolkien's.

>How many of you were inspired to examine Welsh, Hebrew, or Finnish because
>of your examination of Tolkien?
Nope. Not me.

>How many of you were inspired to invent a conlang or a conculture because of
>some influence OTHER than Tolkien?
Me. I've always made up what I now term "concultures" as part of my play as
a child. Conlanging and conculturing are just a development of that. I
started by myself but there are other influences: Guy Gavriel Kay,
Katharine Kerr, Melanie Rawn, Mark Rosenfelder, some person by the name of
Sally Caves ;o), Irina Rempt and of course, Andrew Smith's Ill Bethisad.

>How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you engage in
>Roll-Playing Games?
Never played one in my life.

>How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you heard of this
>listserv?
Definately not. I was conlanging before I heard of the list.

>How many of you are members of the Mythopoeic Society, or the Society for
>Creative Anachronism, or other High Fantasy Groups?
Not me.

<snip PART III>

>PART IV:  THE LUNATIC SURVEY REVISITED (because we are all "fous du
>langage," according to Yaguello and other French critics.
>
>Why do you conlang?  Who will speak it?  Read it?  What's the point?  What's
>the beauty?  what's the intellectual draw?
Just because. Also because "to do is to understand"- were it not for
conlanging I would know a lot less about linguistics and languages than I
do now.

>To what would you compare a conlang?  Is it a miniature?  Is it a model?  Is
>it a tapestry?  Is it an act of obsession and madness? <G>  Or is it a
>communicable language?
The last two ;o)

>If it is a communicable language, to whom do you speak it?
My partner, my dog and my gods.

>To what extent is the opacity or "alterity" of your language something that
>pleases you?  In other words, the sounds and the script have, even for you,
>a quality of being foreign, and this delights.
>Comment?  (I know that when I make maps of cities, and imagine myself in
>them, they delight me because they are both familiar and foreign at the same
>time.)
Arvorec is at once intimately familiar yet just slightly "foreign" and
unknown. The same with Carashan, actually, and Aredos. I like to pattern my
languages after "real" languages- to try to get the "feel" of the language
without it just being a relex or copy.

>This is a difficult question:  how is it that a word sounds "right" to you?
>We recently discussed this.  To what extent are you finding righter, better
>words for the world in your conlang?  (Perhaps unanswerable).
You're quite right. All down to my personal aesthetics, the languages I was
taught and brought up with and the graphical effect in the Latin alphabet.

>How many of you are fictive map-makers, designers of fictive floor plans,
>fictive yachts, fictive star-ships, world-builders, calligraphers,
>cartoonists, etc.?  (These pursuits have been associated with conlanging.  I
>'ve done most of them.)
Fictive maps all over the place, fictive landscape paintings and a *lot* of
calligraphy, both in my conlangs and in natlangs.

>How many of you have a special script in your conlang?
There's one for Norreyna, one for the Aredos-derived languages and there's
an alphabet based on the Lugano script for Arvorec.

>If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing system?
>In other words, do you use unconventional letters to represent sounds?
>Why?
"Conventional" in the Celtic sense, yes. Arvorec's fairly "phonetic".

>This is a question Heather asked, but I also asked it four years ago:  how
>many of you write in your language?  What do you write?
Yes I do. I write my diary, memos to myself and my partner and recipies.
This is not counting poems, songs and stories written in my languages.

>How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
>purpose?
I've only invented one song- the Arvorec national anthem. I can sing it
after a fashion.

>How many of you started conlanging when you were a teenager and have stuck
>to the same language over many years?   Why?
I'm still a teenager! ;o) I started when I was about nine or so with a
relex of French. Needless to say I haven't kept it up. But Aredos and
Carashan have been pretty constant obsessions since I was about fourteen
and Arvorec since I was sixteen.

>How many of you change conlangs regularly, developing structures for many
>languages but not sticking with any one for very long?  Why?
I occasionally alternate between Arvorec, Aredos and Carashan, depending on
whether my real-world pursuits have been about Celtic, Romance or Classical
languages respectively.

>For how many of you does your language function as a spiritual instrument?
>This is a deeply personal question--let me give you an example.  When I
>first started inventing "Tayonian" in my early teens, what I wrote were
>spells and prayers.  They had a talismanic quality.  Does that ring a bell
>for anybody?
I've written prayers and rituals in Arvorec and spells in Aredos. Nothing
similar for Carashan, though.

>For how many of you was your language at least at one stage of its making
>meant to fool others, or to write secret diaries? (Me, waving my hand).
Secret diaries, yes. Fooling others, not so much. More privacy than
anything else ;o)

>How many of you can speak your language, at least to yourself and your pet?
>child?  spouse?  <G>  To what extent?
I speak Carashan almost fluently, but generally to myself. I taught one of
my previous partners the basics but nothing much. I speak Arvorec fairly
well, as does my partner. Unfortunately we both have the bad habit of using
Arvorec words when speaking Welsh to other people :o)

>How many of you have put up websites where your language can be showcased?
>If so, what is the website address?
For Arvorec: www.geocities.com/arvorec nothing for the others, though.

>How many of you have made soundbytes of your language so the rest of us can
>hear it?  If so, give the site.
Alas, not yet! I'm working on it though!

>How many of you are comfortable talking to your boss, your professors, your
>family members about this pursuit?   How many of you have received
>condescending or other negative responses to your disclosure?  (I have.)  Or
>even been called "pathological"?
I generally don't talk about it to anyone except my partner. He doesn't
conlang himself but is happy to participate in my insanity ;o)

>If this attitude is changing, to what do you attribute the change?  (On New
>Year's Eve, a delightful, elderly gentleman could not understand why I would
>be interested in this pursuit.  What purpose could it serve?)
>
>For how many of you is the damning statement "better to learn real languages
>than invent private ones" a criticism you have encountered?  What would be
>your response to such a remark?
I've not encountered this but my response would be something like "I speak
about five different real languages fluently and another ten competently.
Say that to me again when you can do the same."

>PART V:  GENERAL DEMOGRAPHICS:
>
>What is your age (optional--and can be general: 30-40, for instance).
19

>What is your profession or your station in life (i.e., if you are a student,
>what is your MAJOR; if a middle or high-school student, what is your
>intended major)?
Licensee (bar manager).

>What is your gender?
Male.

>What is your nationality and your native language?
Franco-British (dual), my natives are French and English, learning Welsh
and Breton from a *very* early age.

>What natural languages do you speak or have studied?
French, English, Welsh, Breton, Cornish, Scottish Gaelic, Spanish, Italian,
German, Portuguese, Norwegian, Romanian, Old English, Old norse, Classical
Greek, Latin, Gaulish (!), Sanskrit, Esperanto <spits>, Catalan and Hindi.
That's not separating those I speak and those I've just studied.

>How many of you have chosen a profession in linguistics because of your
>interest in inventing languages?  Or plan a profession in linguistics?
I'd love to, but unfortunately the call of the real world and neccessity of
money hold me back...

>What have you learned from conlanging?
It's the best way I've found yet to waste hours upon hours on ;o).
Basically, "linguistics".

>What texts on language and linguistics have you consulted to help invent
>your language?
EEEEEEEEK!!! A hell of a lot. The ones I refer to *regularly* (i.e. own and
don't steal from the library) Lewis-Pedersen's "Concise Comparative Celtic
Grammar", Ball's "The Celtic Languages", "A History of Spanish" by I forget
whom, "Historical Linguistics" ditto and Mallory's "In Search of the
Indo-Europeans".

>Do you know of anyone who has not connected with the Internet or the List
>who has invented a language? (I'm firmly convinced that "conlanging" has
>been a private pursuit for many people long before the list started, but
>that the list has increased its visibility as an art).
Nope. Just me and you guys.

>Can you give me a short sample of your language with interlinear description
>and translation?
A lyth mew garan, a lyth ef an 'waer gan. Py lyth, a hwnaf, nath aeldhaw o haf.

PARTICLE-go-3s.perf my lover, PARTICLE-go-3s.perf he the dawn with. When
gone, PARTICLE sleep-1s.imp, NEG.PARTICLE return.3s.pres from summer.

My lover's gone, he went with the dawn. When he went I was sleeping, he
will not return from the summer.

>Would you object to my mentioning your conlang/and or your name in my talk?
>I will be discreet about some of the more personal questions you answered.
Not at all! Be as indiscreet as you want. ;o)

Dan

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