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Re: New Survey: Celtic Conlangs (and other lunatic pursuits)

From:John Cowan <jcowan@...>
Date:Tuesday, January 7, 2003, 2:42
Sally Caves scripsit:

> Have you based your conlang(s) wholly or partially on a Celtic language? > If so, on which? or combined with which?
No, not really. I've fooled around with a Cyrillic conscript for Irish, but that's not a conlang.
> What is your name and what do you call your conlang(s)?
John Cowan. Piat, xuxuxi.
> When did you start it/them?
Let's say 2000.
> Are you still working with it/them or have you abandoned it or them?
I've shelved them both.
> What Celtic features have you borrowed? What is the structure of your > language? Be specific.
Nothing really Celtic. Piat uses w and y as vowels, but not with Welsh meanings. It's an isolating language with a very restrictive phonology.
> What innovations did you introduce? (new constructions, perhaps a new > script, etc.)
The original Piat conceit was to create a Finnish/Chinese hybrid, but I got led off in a different direction altogether.
> What features of Celtic languages (or a particular Celtic language) > initially inspired or intrigued you?
The idea of 7 vowel letters, I guess.
> How many of you are also scholars of Celtic languages? Scholars of other > languages?
J.O.A.T.M.O.N.
> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because of your exposure > to Tolkien?
Not. I've always loved JRRT, Middle-Earth, and the Elvish languages, but they have not been a specific or generic inspiration for me.
> How many of you based your conlang on one of Tolkien's languages, or your > conculture in Middle Earth?
Not.
> How many of you have a constructed world, and, if so, does it include some > of the races we associate with Celtic or Scandinavian mythology? (Elves, > Dwarves, medieval societies of humans, Faeries or Fays? Selkies? Wizards?)
Piat fits into an alternate, but purely human, universe.
> How many of you were inspired to examine Welsh, Hebrew, or Finnish because > of your examination of Tolkien?
Not.
> How many of you were inspired to invent a conlang or a conculture because of > some influence OTHER than Tolkien?
Conlangs: Esperanto and Lojban have been important to me. Conculturing has always been about alternate history for me: my participation in Ill Bethisad is entirely about conculture.
> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you engage in > Roll-Playing Games?
Not.
> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you heard of this > listserv?
I started working on both languages (long) after joining Conlang, but I was already working with Lojban then.
> How many of you are members of the Mythopoeic Society, or the Society for > Creative Anachronism, or other High Fantasy Groups?
Nope.
> PART III: NON-CELTIC CONLANGERS: > > In the discussions I've witnessed on Conlang in almost five years, I've > observed that many conlangers have deliberately avoided "Tolkienesque" > languages, and even Indo-European languages as models for conlangs, and > especially the "Celtic."
Doesn't fit me.
> What is your name and what do you call your conlang?
See above.
> So what is unappealing about the Indo-European model for conlanging? Or > Tolkien's Elvish?
N/A
> How did you start conlanging? What was your initial inspiration?
I was interested in IALs, but primarily from an artlang POV (as I now see). Xuxuxi is an artlang designed as an excellent IAL.
> Did you know about Tolkien's inventions? Read the books, the appendices? > etc. Or not?
Yes.
> What language types have you modeled your language(s) after?
Xuxuxi is basically a relex of AllNoun applied to WordNet (or Classical Yiklamu). My main inventions have been phonologies.
> What features of these languages or language types appeal to you?
I like loglangs and engelangs generally.
> Some of you, and I'm thinking in particular of a conversation I had with And > Rosta, are not interested in producing a language that is > "mellifluous"--that "mellifluousness" is a thing to be avoided in your > conlang and especially as it is associated with Tolkien's Elvish or copiers > of Elvish. Is this so? Why?
I neither like nor dislike mellifluousness.
> For how many of you, though, is beauty and/or efficiency a factor in your > language? Or elegance? How would you define these terms?
Engineering merit is the main factor.
> For how many of you is the "exotic" a desired feature of your invented > language?
Not.
> How many of you invent a non-human language? And if so, how alien are its > sounds and constructions?
Not.
> Do you prefer inventing an a posteriori language or an a priori language? > In other words, how many of you invent a language wherein you base it > closely on a natural language (Arabic, Tagalog) or a combination of > languages, and how many others of you invent a language from, well, scratch? > (if that can be done.)
A priori.
> How many of you invent a language based on a particular type (Ergative, > Accusative, Trigger, etc.)?
I haven't used any of these types.
> To what degree is difficulty and irregularity of language important to you > in your conlang? what natural language eccentricities (or efficiencies) do > you like and try to reproduce?
I avoid these. In xuxuxi, since it is designed using IAL criteria, regularity and simplicity is very important.
> To what degree is accessibility, efficiency, and regularity important to > your conlang? What natural language "faults" are you correcting?
I don't think of them as faults, just difficulties. IALs should be easy.
> How many of you invent logical languages?
I don't think xuxui is quite a loglang, but of course I have *worked on* a very important loglang.
> How many of you invent IALs?
Me.
> How many of you have invented non-Tolkienesque or non European concultures > and what are they like?
Not.
> How many of you started out by pulling words out of the air, originally? > How many of you have chosen a more methodic form of vocabulary building? > I.e., how have you gone about setting up the framework for your words and > your grammar? > (I started out pulling words out of the air.)
I like to generate words.
> Why do you conlang? Who will speak it? Read it? What's the point? What's > the beauty? what's the intellectual draw?
It's an art form, a very difficult one.
> To what would you compare a conlang? Is it a miniature? Is it a model? Is > it a tapestry? Is it an act of obsession and madness? <G> Or is it a > communicable language?
I guess if I *have* to choose I would say it is more like a tapestry. Or maybe a cathedral.
> If it is a communicable language, to whom do you speak it?
Nobody, alas.
> To what extent is the opacity or "alterity" of your language something that > pleases you? In other words, the sounds and the script have, even for you, > a quality of being foreign, and this delights. > Comment? (I know that when I make maps of cities, and imagine myself in > them, they delight me because they are both familiar and foreign at the same > time.)
I don't have this feeling.
> This is a difficult question: how is it that a word sounds "right" to you? > We recently discussed this. To what extent are you finding righter, better > words for the world in your conlang? (Perhaps unanswerable).
This doesn't affect me much, but I am not big on vocabulary.
> How many of you are fictive map-makers, designers of fictive floor plans, > fictive yachts, fictive star-ships, world-builders, calligraphers, > cartoonists, etc.? (These pursuits have been associated with conlanging. I > 've done most of them.)
I used to draw alternative subway maps, but they were (the more so as I went on) grounded in the physical reality of the NYC subway.
> How many of you have a special script in your conlang?
Not.
> If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing system? > In other words, do you use unconventional letters to represent sounds? > Why?
Only when necessary to maintain the phonemic principle.
> This is a question Heather asked, but I also asked it four years ago: how > many of you write in your language? What do you write?
I have written in Lojban, and especially translated into it. Poems and journal entries.
> How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that > purpose?
Not.
> How many of you started conlanging when you were a teenager and have stuck > to the same language over many years? Why?
I'm not that faithful to one language.
> How many of you change conlangs regularly, developing structures for many > languages but not sticking with any one for very long? Why?
Somewhere in between this and the previous. A few languages, insufficiently explored due to lack of time.
> For how many of you does your language function as a spiritual instrument? > This is a deeply personal question--let me give you an example. When I > first started inventing "Tayonian" in my early teens, what I wrote were > spells and prayers. They had a talismanic quality. Does that ring a bell > for anybody?
Not me.
> For how many of you was your language at least at one stage of its making > meant to fool others, or to write secret diaries? (Me, waving my hand).
Not me. Diaries yes, secret no.
> How many of you can speak your language, at least to yourself and your pet? > child? spouse? <G> To what extent?
I can fool around in Lojban a little, but I have trouble remembering the vocabulary. My own languages, no.
> How many of you have put up websites where your language can be showcased? > If so, what is the website address?
Not me.
> How many of you have made soundbytes of your language so the rest of us can > hear it? If so, give the site.
Not me.
> How many of you are comfortable talking to your boss, your professors, your > family members about this pursuit? How many of you have received > condescending or other negative responses to your disclosure? (I have.) Or > even been called "pathological"?
I have no trouble with it, but I find the typical responses to be incomprehension and/or sympathetic lack of interest.
> If this attitude is changing, to what do you attribute the change? (On New > Year's Eve, a delightful, elderly gentleman could not understand why I would > be interested in this pursuit. What purpose could it serve?)
About the same.
> For how many of you is the damning statement "better to learn real languages > than invent private ones" a criticism you have encountered? What would be > your response to such a remark?
I don't know, really. I probably would say they were totally different things.
> PART V: GENERAL DEMOGRAPHICS: > > What is your age (optional--and can be general: 30-40, for instance).
44
> What is your profession or your station in life (i.e., if you are a student, > what is your MAJOR; if a middle or high-school student, what is your > intended major)?
Computer programming.
> What is your gender?
Male.
> What is your nationality and your native language?
U.S.; English.
> What natural languages do you speak or have studied?
I don't speak anything but English. I have studied Russian and German a bit, but not enough to speak them. I know lots of random things about lots of random languages.
> How many of you have chosen a profession in linguistics because of your > interest in inventing languages? Or plan a profession in linguistics?
Not me.
> What have you learned from conlanging?
How very hard it is, and how right JRRT is when he says that life is not long enough for this art!
> What texts on language and linguistics have you consulted to help invent > your language?
I can't think of any in particular, though I have read widely.
> Do you know of anyone who has not connected with the Internet or the List > who has invented a language? (I'm firmly convinced that "conlanging" has > been a private pursuit for many people long before the list started, but > that the list has increased its visibility as an art).
No.
> Can you give me a short sample of your language with interlinear description > and translation?
I don't have the energy at present, since both languages are in suspension.
> Would you object to my mentioning your conlang/and or your name in my talk? > I will be discreet about some of the more personal questions you answered.
No problem. -- XQuery Blueberry DOM John Cowan Entity parser dot-com jcowan@reutershealth.com Abstract schemata http://www.reutershealth.com XPointer errata http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Infoset Unicode BOM --Richard Tobin