Re: Circumfixes?

At 4:50 pm +0200 6/6/01, Henrik Theiling wrote:
>Hi!
>
>Danny Wier <dawier@...> writes:
[snip]
>
>Especially this:
>
>> "at" + noun-nom = adessive "at, on"
>> "at" + noun-acc = allative "onto"
>> "at" + noun-gen = ablative "from"
>> "in" + noun-nom = inessive "in"
>> "in" + noun-acc = illative "into"
>> "in" + noun-gen = ellative "out of"
>
[snip]
>
>Your case choice seems to be borrowed from Ancient Greek, right?  I
>think it looks quite IEish because of this, since, IIRC ablative and
>genitive cases have usually merged here (especially visible in the
>mentioned Greek).
Yes, if Danny had 'noun-dat' instead of 'noun-nom', it would be exactly
like ancient Greek  :)
e.g.
"para" + noun-acc = to (the side of)
"para" + noun-gen = from (the side of)
"para" + noun-dat = at (the side of), near
"pros" + noun-acc = towards
"pros" + noun-gen = from
"pros" + noun-dat = at
"hypo" + noun-acc = to (a place) under
"hypo" + noun-gen = from under
"hypo" + noun-dat = under, beneath

I've never liked "preposition + nom.".  Does _any_ natlang with a case
system actually use pre/postpositions with the nom.?

This sort of circumfix system has cropped up every so often on this list.
I even recall discussion of something similar on Auxlang  :)

It's kinda neat.  I often think it was pity the Greeks didn't carry the
system through consistently, instead of which they gradually abandoned it.
Now all prepositions simply govern the acc. whatever their meaning, and the
poor dative, having nothing else to do, has given up the ghost and doesn't
survive in the modern language.

Both circumfixes & circumpositions are found in natlangs. According to
Trask, Tigrinya has a circumfix _bi-.....-gize_ = "at the time when" and
Mandarin Chinese has a circumposition _dao2......li3_ = "into" (acc. to
Trask _dao2_ = "to" and _li3_ = "in" - he gives an example: _dao2 guon2
li3_ = (literally) to can in = into the can).  I'm feeling tired this even,
but I seem to recall that such circumpositions are not uncommon in Mandarin.

Ray.


=========================================
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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