Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Hiatus in Artlangs

From:Carlos Thompson <carlos_thompson@...>
Date:Friday, November 10, 2000, 19:21
Leo Moser wabbe:

> One exception to the lack of a debate was the > Eo-Ido squabble that centered on E-o correlatives. > Esperanto pronounced all vowels in succession in > the correlativetables (and elsewhere) as separate > syllables with "hiatus" between them. Ido seemed > to feel a need to change the rule -- when and if the > first element was an I or U. But did this reform > help or hurt pronunciability? More significantly, > perhaps, did it in fact actually change the > pronunciations for many?
Well, respecting IALs I don't think it makes a lot of difference if you pronounce {piano} as /pjano/ (diphthongue), /pi.ano/ (hiatus), /pijano/ (glide) or /pi?ano/ (stop), as longer as there are not minimal pairs and the {i} is not stressed. I would thing that any viable conIAL should allow a variety of accents/idiolects and still being understandable. Enforcing one kind of pronunciation (hiatus or diphthongue) would make it a good conlang that many people could master, but not really an IAL. Well, that was personal opinion.
> Let's look at this from an artlang point of view. > Would you have the following pronounced as > one or two syllable words in your languages? > (As "Imaginary words," they are marked by *; > please don't worry if some are actual words > in some natlang.) > > If we opt for two syllables, we get such initial > combos as the following: > Initial [dj] in: *dieto, *dieno, *dialo etc. > Initial [sj] in: *siesto, *sievo, *siamo etc. > Initial [kj] in: *kiano, *kiepto, *kielo etc. > Initial [vj] in: *viato, *vieno, *violo etc. > Initial [gj] in: *giapo, *gieno, *giosto etc. > Initial [bj] in: *bialo, *biento, *biesto etc. > Initial [mj] in: *mielo, *miano, *mioso etc. > Initial [fw] in: *fuoco, *fuano, *fuero etc. > Initial [lw] in: *luano, *luego, *luiso etc. > Initial [pw] in: *pueblo, *puepo, *puoso etc. > Initial [gw] in: *guano, *guero, *guido etc. > Initial [kw] in: *kualo, *kueno, *kuoto etc. > Initial [dw] in: *dualo, *dueno, *duito etc. > Initial [rw] in: *ruano, *ruino, *rueso etc. > > Would these be safer to define as three syllables? > What differing effects would the results have in > an artlang? Would it be easier to sing in one > form or another? Would poetry be easier in > one form or another?
Well, Biwa, my newest conlang do allow CLV combinations where C is a consonant and L is an aproximant (central or lateral). Well, some restrictions apply, following your examples: /vj/ would be imposible since there is no /v/, the same applies to /fw/, but /p\w/ is posible... well it would probably became [p\_G] (velarized voiceless bilibial fricative). /dj/ and /sj/ wouldn't exist either but they would become [dZ] and [S] respectively, all other cluster are possible. Well, that if you write them: "djeto" /dZetI/, "sjesto" /SEst@/, "cjano" /kjAn@/, "gjapo" /gjAp@/, "bjalo" /bjAl@/, "mjelo" /mjelI/, "fvoco" /p\wowkU/, "lvano" /lwAn@/, "pveblo" /pweblI/, "gvano" /gwAn@/, "qualo" /kwAl@/, "dvalo" /dwAl@/, "rvalo" /rwAl@/, etc. If you write "dieto" it would become /di.etI/ [di:jet_hI], with primary estress in "di" and secundary stress in "e" and a little glide separating the vowels. The same applies for all other glides. In Chleweyish, "dieto" wuld also be thrisyllabic"/di:.@tO/, stressed in "di", but "diéto" would be nomminally trisyllabic: /dI.e:tO/, stressed in "e", but would be [dje:tO] in fast speech. In other words: above clusters are not allowed in carefull speech, but any unstressed closed vowel besides another vowel would become a glide in fast speech. In Hangkerimce all syllables are CV(N), where C cannot be null, and V is not a diphthong... however, some times V can be realized as a raising or falling diphthong or even a triphthong.
> Combinations of -oa- -eo- etc. face the danger > that English speakers insert a semivowel, making > such things as -owa- and -eyo-. This is, to a > degree, another issue. > > As I undersand it, Klingon has no sequences > of vowel, so that solves that in the Klingon > arena. But many artlangs have, especially the > kinder and gentler ones. > > Best regards, LEO > > Leo J. Moser