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Re: Furrin phones in my own lect! (YAGPT warning!)

From:Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
Date:Tuesday, March 28, 2006, 11:28

Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> writes:
> On 3/28/06, Tristan Alexander McLeay <conlang@...> wrote: > > Wikipedia writes /E/ for short e and suggests that [e] exists, at > > least, as an allophone of /e:/. Would you consider that an > > exaggeration? > > I think that's possible. Short forms of the "normally long" vowels > occur, though I think mostly or only in pretonic syllables of loan > words. > > For example, "Telefon" is (for me) ['te:l@fo:n] but "telefonisch" is > [tel@'fo:nIS]; the [e:] turned into [e]. I'd say they're the same > phoneme, though. (Again, though, the short allophone is, I think, > restricted to borrowings.)
Exactly. I've seen half-long diacritics for these unstressed long vowels that are reduced to (almost) short duration. I think that's what the Wikipedia means here.
> > (In any case, it seems to me that if a language has both > > /e:/ and /E:/, and a short equivalent of both that's pronounced [E], > > the logical phonemic representation of it would be /E/. Is there any > > particular reason why you don't?) > > I consider the short phoneme to be /E/ -- considering |Bett| [bEt] > as /bet/ seems a bit odd. Perhaps /e/ is simply for ease of writing? > In the end, as long as the assignment of symbols to phonemes is > unambiguous, it doesn't really matter which symbols you use.
I mainly use /e/ becaues there are other mid-close vowels with short-long pairs, but only one mid-open long vowel /E:/. Therefore, for symmetry, I use: /o:/ vs. /o/ /2:/ vs. /2/ And also: /e:/ vs. /e/ And an additional phoneme pair would be /E:/ vs */E/, but */E/ is the same as /e/, so we don't need that. Of course, you could write all short phonemes consistently in their lax variant (i.e. /o:/ vs /O/ etc.), but then the [+-length] property would not be highlighted as much as I think it should be.
> And you may know this already, but /E:/ is a marginal phoneme for some > Germans, including me; it's nearly always realised as [e:], except in > very careful speech.
Right. **Henrik -- Relay 13 is online:


Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>