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Re: Quenya phrase (was Re: RV: Translations [Conlang T Shirt])

From:FFlores <fflores@...>
Date:Friday, November 5, 1999, 22:36
Brook Conner <nellardo@...> wrote:

> Why does the "lambelya" move between "nai" and "maruva"? I was under > the impression that Quenya, while generally being SVO, was rather > flexible about word order.
Well, then why not?
> Further, I still am not satisfied with "sinome" not being declined. >=20 > It's a noun, not a pronoun - "here" doesn't need an antecedent. It is > specifying the location of the action named by the verb. If we > replaced "sinome" with "Ro'men" - the East, a location - what would > happen?
I fail to understand your point. _Sinome_ is an adverb! If you actually want to say 'in this place', you say _sina nomesse_ (or whatever word for 'place' in the locative case). But 'here' is already locative. I guess that ablative and allative case still do have to be marked, _sinomello_ and _sinomenna_, but I'm sure *_sinomesse_ is redundant. Even without possessing all published material, I'd bet anything against the possibility that it's attested somewhere; while OTOH we *have* an attested example of undeclined _sinome_ which you have worked into a weird vocative... In King Elessar's words, Sinome maruvan I don't see any comma, or exclamation point, or the vocative particle _=E1_, or anything that could indicate it's a vocative.
> The example from King Elessar, either it's a vocative phrase: "Here!" > or it's the direct object, in which case others have indicated it may > not be declined simply because the DO was not always declined to the > accusative.
In Book Quenya (older literary form) the accusative was marked, lengthening the last vowel in the singular, and changing the normal plural -(vowel)r to -(vowel)i, as H. Fauskanger explains. In spoken Quenya, accusative wasn't marked at all. I ask you again, what is _sinome_ supposed to be DO of? _Sinome maruvan_ is, for all we know, an intransitive phrase, 'Here I will dwell', not a transitive one 'This place I will inhabit' or something of the sort. --Pablo Flores