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Quenya phrase (was Re: RV: Translations [Conlang T Shirt])

From:Brook Conner <nellardo@...>
Date:Thursday, November 4, 1999, 15:16
Daniel Andreasson writes:
 > Pablo wrote:
 > > Helge:
 > > > If you want something that is certainly grammatically correct,
 > > > but perhaps slightly more awkward, try _nai lambelya maruva sinome_ =
 > > > "may your language dwell here".

Why does the "lambelya" move between "nai" and "maruva"? I was under
the impression that Quenya, while generally being SVO, was rather
flexible about word order.

 > > I like this last one, or plain _lambelya ea sinome_
 > > 'your language Is here'.

Oh, but maybe it isn't :-) That's why I think "nai" or some other form
of conditional or maybe would be good.

 > > What do you think, people?

Well, I'm biased, of course :-)

Replacing "hir-" with "mar-" seems like a good compromise, lacking any
information on whether "hir-" can be reflexive or not. I would ask if
there is a separate verb attested for "to be located" - "to locate"
would readily translate as "to find", right?  Which would mean, either
passive voice or usage of "to find" in the sense of "to find oneself"
- i.e., to be located. This is the question I keep asking about
reflexivity of "hir-"

Further, I still am not satisfied with "sinome" not being declined.

It's a noun, not a pronoun - "here" doesn't need an antecedent.  It is
specifying the location of the action named by the verb. If we
replaced "sinome" with "Ro'men" - the East, a location - what would

From "Namarie":

Si vanwa na', Ro'mello vanwa, Valimar

We see Ro'men *declined*.  Ro'men is "The East." A location. Clearly
it has as much "locative" connotation as "sinome"

So someone please explain again why sinome should not be declined?
The example from King Elessar, either it's a vocative phrase: "Here!"
or it's the direct object, in which case others have indicated it may
not be declined simply because the DO was not always declined to the

 > Well, I don't think we should be making up uncertain
 > future forms,

Agreed - neither "nai hiruva" nor "nai maruva" are uncertain. The
exact phrase may be unattested, but all the components *are*

 > and I really like the two last ones,
 > so I'm with you. But I don't think 'ea' has the same
 > connotations English 'goes' has.


 > I sounds like it
 > already is there, not that it might be if you actually
 > do something useful, like creating a lang. :)
 > "Nai lambelya maruva sinome" has an epic Tolkienian
 > touch that I like. I'd say: Go for that!

May it be that your language will dwell here.
Your language! May it be that it will dwell here.

They both seem pretty epic to me :-)

 > Anyone up for doing the tengwar?

Chop off the end of sinome, starting from "esse".

Replace the "hir" part (hyarmen, i, romen) with "mar" ( a romen)

In total:

"Nai" :  ore a (short carrier) i

"Lambelya" : lambe a  umbar e lambe yanta a
  HF suggests lambe a umbar e lambe a two-under-dots

"maruva" : hyarmen i romen u vala a

"sinome" : silme (nuquema if prefered) i numen o malta e

Again, I suggest sinomesse, which adds:
  esse (again, may be nuquema) e

co'o mi'e brukcr.
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