Re: Fourth Person

Pablo Flores wrote:

> Tom Wier wrote:
> >
> >I've been wondering about something recently:  is it possible for languages
> >to have a fourth person?  I heard that some native American language somewhere
> >like in New York State or something had one (Haida?), but don't remember the
> >details.  In any event, I wonder whether that would be something equivalent to
> >the use of "one" in English or "man" in German.
>
> I think "one" (also "on" in French) is also a third person, only a different
> kind: while "he" or "she" are determined third persons, "one" refers to an
> undetermined person, or to all possible or hypothetical third persons. It's
> probably a question of nomenclature.
I realize that many, perhaps most, languages indicate the meaning of
"one" by giving it third person forms of verbs, but that is not what we're
trying to get a hold of here, as German uses a third person plural verb ending
for a second person singular meaning ("Sie"). So it is shown that just because
a language uses a different verb ending for a pronoun does not mean that that
is its "logical" pronoun ending.  Let us not be confused by the surface idiom
presented by various languages.

What I said was something quite different:  "one" as a pronoun is a pronoun
that is used for something beyond just the first, second, and third person:
it refers to society at large, to individuals in that society beyond one mentioned
in immediate conversation.  It is wholly discursive though:  it refers to someone
beyond just a "he" or "she".   If you think about it, to say that "one" is just a
"generic third person" because it is, is  like saying that rocks fall to the ground because
they have a disposition to do so, which was what Aristotle wrongly said about
physics.  I would say that "one" is generic because deixistically, it is beyond
the normal bounds of the third person, thus making the term _fourth_ person
altogether necessary if you are going to speak of the semantics of it, no matter
what endings it actually takes.


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Tom Wier <artabanos@...>
ICQ#: 4315704   AIM: Deuterotom
Website: <http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/>
"Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero."

"Ille se profecisse sciat cui Cicero valde placebit."
   - poster found on professor's door.
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