Re: Fourth Person

Tom Wier wrote:
>
> I've been wondering about something recently:  is it possible for languages
> to have a fourth person?  I heard that some native American language somewhere
> like in New York State or something had one (Haida?), but don't remember the
> details.  In any event, I wonder whether that would be something equivalent to
> the use of "one" in English or "man" in German.
>
> =======================================================
> Tom Wier <artabanos@...>
> ICQ#: 4315704   AIM: Deuterotom
> Website: <http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/>
> "Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero."
>
> "Ille se profecisse sciat cui Cicero valde placebit."
>    - poster found on professor's door.
> ========================================================
Although they are not uncommon in North American languages, calling
them a 4th person is somewhat misleading and seems to be rarely done
anymore..  I use them in all of my conlangs because I find they are so
helpful.  The usual terminology involved for Algonkian languages is
proximate and obviative, both of which  are more or less our 3rd
person.  Consider this sentence,
He saw him, but he didn't see him.
        In English it is of course somewhat ambiguous.  In a language with the
proximate:obviative contrast, it might be something like
this;
He-prox saw him-obv, but he-obv didn't see him-prox.
Someone once compared it to legalese, "the party of the first part saw
the party of the second part, but the party of the second part did
not see the party of the first part."
Its been too long since I looked at Haida so I don't remember its
systems, but Algonkian languages are very accessible, try "Meet Cree",
sorry, don't remember the author, but the proximate-obviative contrast
is discussed there.
--
Brad Coon
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