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Re: Fourth Person

From:Hawksinger <hawksinger@...>
Date:Monday, October 5, 1998, 2:43
Tom Wier wrote:
> > I've been wondering about something recently: is it possible for languages > to have a fourth person? I heard that some native American language somewhere > like in New York State or something had one (Haida?), but don't remember the > details. In any event, I wonder whether that would be something equivalent to > the use of "one" in English or "man" in German. > > ======================================================= > Tom Wier <artabanos@...> > ICQ#: 4315704 AIM: Deuterotom > Website: <http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/> > "Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero." > > "Ille se profecisse sciat cui Cicero valde placebit." > - poster found on professor's door. > ========================================================
Although they are not uncommon in North American languages, calling them a 4th person is somewhat misleading and seems to be rarely done anymore.. I use them in all of my conlangs because I find they are so helpful. The usual terminology involved for Algonkian languages is proximate and obviative, both of which are more or less our 3rd person. Consider this sentence, He saw him, but he didn't see him. In English it is of course somewhat ambiguous. In a language with the proximate:obviative contrast, it might be something like this; He-prox saw him-obv, but he-obv didn't see him-prox. Someone once compared it to legalese, "the party of the first part saw the party of the second part, but the party of the second part did not see the party of the first part." Its been too long since I looked at Haida so I don't remember its systems, but Algonkian languages are very accessible, try "Meet Cree", sorry, don't remember the author, but the proximate-obviative contrast is discussed there. -- Brad Coon hawksinger@fwi.com http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/everquest/624 My Conlang and Conculture pages http://www.ipfw.indiana.edu/east1/coon/web/index.htm Most of my pages including my home page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7264 My Outdoor and Primitive Skills Pages http://members.tripod.com/~Hawksinger My wine pages. "Life without adventure is merely existance."--Hawksinger