Re: Sauron's conlang (was: Intergermansk - Three Rings)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:11:12 +0000, Ray Brown <ray.brown@...> wrote:

>On Friday, January 28, 2005, at 09:19 , Pascal A. Kramm wrote:
>[snip]
>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 20:40:13 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting "Pascal A. Kramm" <pkramm@...>:
>[snip]
>>>> It could have been a completely normal and natural
>>>> lang before Sauron came and changed Mordor into the Land of Shadows...
>
>{sigh}
>I did append a smiley to my remark! Why turn a remark that (I thought) was
>obviously meant to be humorous into a contentious issue?
Huh? "contentious issue"? Aren't you taking things a little too serious?
I just named the IMO most likely action how he created his conlang.

>Obviously that way, what else? Let me quote the sentence in full:
>"It is said that the Black Speech was devised by Sauron in the Dark Years,
>  and that he had desired to make it the language of all those that served
>him, but failed in his purpose"
Well, he would've had more success if he'd posted here before and asked for
suggestions ;)

>> But probably it was based on the language that was
>> spoken there before and not made up out of thin air :)
>
>Good grief!! How does that stop it being a *conlang*?
It doesn't... did I ever say it wouldn't? Nah.

>Is Intergermansk not
>based on languages already spoken in central & western Europe? Are not
>Volapük, Esperanto, Novial, Interglossa, Frater, Choton and many other
>auxlangs based on languages already spoken?
Of course they are.

>*NOWHERE* did I even suggest that Sauron composed an a_priori language
>("made up of out of thin air")!!
Well, your response to my suggestion (that he did base his conlang on
pre-existing langs) seemed indeed to suggest that yyou meant he did create a
'a priori' lang:
  "It could have been a completely normal and natural
  lang before Sauron came and changed Mordor into the Land of Shadows..."
So if he did *not* create an 'a priori' lang, this is exactly what happened,
he used already spoken lang(s) (most probably the previous lang of Mordor)
to create his conlang.

--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of:
Intergermansk: http://www.choton.org/ig/
Chatiga: http://www.choton.org/chatiga/
Choton: http://www.choton.org
Ichwara Prana: http://www.choton.org/ichwara/
Skälansk: http://www.choton.org/sk/
Advanced English: http://www.choton.org/ae/

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