Sauron's conlang (was: Intergermansk - Three Rings)

On Friday, January 28, 2005, at 09:19 , Pascal A. Kramm wrote:
[snip]
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 20:40:13 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Quoting "Pascal A. Kramm" <pkramm@...>:
[snip]
>>>> I do not think he did. Of course the Black Speech was a conlang,
>>>> devised
>>>> by Sauron   ;)
>>>
>>> How would you know that?
Because I am able to read Appendix F of the The Lord of the Rings, where
JRRT wrote: "....devised by Sauron".

>>> It could have been a completely normal and natural
>>> lang before Sauron came and changed Mordor into the Land of Shadows...
{sigh}
I did append a smiley to my remark! Why turn a remark that (I thought) was
obviously meant to be humorous into a contentious issue?

>>
>> The Appendices to The Lord of the Rings are quite explicit that the Black
> Speech
>> was deviced by Sauron to serve as a lingua franca for his followers.
It is, isn't it?

> Ah, that way... ok.
Obviously that way, what else? Let me quote the sentence in full:
"It is said that the Black Speech was devised by Sauron in the Dark Years,
  and that he had desired to make it the language of all those that served
him, but failed in his purpose"

> But probably it was based on the language that was
> spoken there before and not made up out of thin air :)
Good grief!! How does that stop it being a *conlang*? Is Intergermansk not
based on languages already spoken in central & western Europe? Are not
Volapük, Esperanto, Novial, Interglossa, Frater, Choton and many other
auxlangs based on languages already spoken?

*NOWHERE* did I even suggest that Sauron composed an a_priori language
("made up of out of thin air")!!

I said no more that what anyone can read in LotR Appendix F - I had
thought that on the _Conlang_ list my remark would have passed as mild
humor.
{sigh}

Ray
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Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
which is not so much a twilight of the gods
as of the reason."      [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]

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