Re: a King's proverb

In a message dated 6/16/01 2:47:09 AM, pearson@HUMNET.UCLA.EDU writes:

>"Wade, Guy" wrote:
>
>> Josh Roth wrote:
>>
>> > In Eloshtan:
>> >
>> > Tec cafo mentelenes rri mrewenes tes mologosanoc.
>> > (Speak his language, then choose him to be your enemy)
>>
>> I like that wording.  It sounds less like a high-falutin' proverb and
>more
>> like something a tribal elder would say to a young warrior.
>
>But the way Josh has reworded it, it now seems to mean that you should
>become
>the enemy of everybody whose language you speak:  Once you speak his
language,
>he becomes your enemy.  Surely that's not the intended meaning...
>
>Matt.
Good point. I was thinking about this... and I think it's just ambiguous (in
Eloshtan and the English translation). It says the order things should come
in if they occur - whether or not these things should actually occur is
another matter. I think the root of this ambiguity in Eloshtan is that the
subjunctive mood indicates hypotheticality (is that a word?) as well as
commands. Another way to see the sentence is "First - the hypothetical
situation of you knowing his language. Second - the hypothetical situation of
you choosing him as your enemy," only the second part could also mean "choose
him as your enemy!"

Come to think of it, the original English version seems similarly ambiguous:
"Before you choose your enemy, speak his language." This could be seen as
implying that you are actually choosing an enemy, but I think the real
intention is more like "IF you are choosing an enemy." The idea isn't "you
must be choosing enemies, but just make sure you speak their language first";
you could say the original phrase even to someone who will never have
enemies, and "if" will be understood even though it's not there.

If an Eloshtan speaker wanted to say that everyone whose language you speak
must be your enemy, they would probably say just that - "teltek pekel teck
cafo mentelenesifev tes mologosagjoc."

(am I making any sense?)

Josh Roth
members.aol.com/fuscian/eloshtan.html

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