Re: a King's proverb

That's interesting, because I wouldn't have even
noticed the English as ambiguous, even though the way
it is phrased grammatically would suggest two possible
meanings.

James
--- Josh Roth <Fuscian@...> wrote: > In a message
dated 6/16/01 2:47:09 AM,
> pearson@HUMNET.UCLA.EDU writes:
>
> >"Wade, Guy" wrote:
> >
> >> Josh Roth wrote:
> >>
> >> > In Eloshtan:
> >> >
> >> > Tec cafo mentelenes rri mrewenes tes
> mologosanoc.
> >> > (Speak his language, then choose him to be your
> enemy)
> >>
> >> I like that wording.  It sounds less like a
> high-falutin' proverb and
> >more
> >> like something a tribal elder would say to a
> young warrior.
> >
> >But the way Josh has reworded it, it now seems to
> mean that you should
> >become
> >the enemy of everybody whose language you speak:
> Once you speak his
> language,
> >he becomes your enemy.  Surely that's not the
> intended meaning...
> >
> >Matt.
>
> Good point. I was thinking about this... and I think
> it's just ambiguous (in
> Eloshtan and the English translation). It says the
> order things should come
> in if they occur - whether or not these things
> should actually occur is
> another matter. I think the root of this ambiguity
> in Eloshtan is that the
> subjunctive mood indicates hypotheticality (is that
> a word?) as well as
> commands. Another way to see the sentence is "First
> - the hypothetical
> situation of you knowing his language. Second - the
> hypothetical situation of
> you choosing him as your enemy," only the second
> part could also mean "choose
> him as your enemy!"
>
> Come to think of it, the original English version
> seems similarly ambiguous:
> "Before you choose your enemy, speak his language."
> This could be seen as
> implying that you are actually choosing an enemy,
> but I think the real
> intention is more like "IF you are choosing an
> enemy." The idea isn't "you
> must be choosing enemies, but just make sure you
> speak their language first";
> you could say the original phrase even to someone
> who will never have
> enemies, and "if" will be understood even though
> it's not there.
>
> If an Eloshtan speaker wanted to say that everyone
> whose language you speak
> must be your enemy, they would probably say just
> that - "teltek pekel teck
> cafo mentelenesifev tes mologosagjoc."
>
> (am I making any sense?)
>
> Josh Roth
> members.aol.com/fuscian/eloshtan.html

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