Re: Existential clauses

Hello!

Argh, why must I always cause confusion?

---------------{ QUOTATION }---------------

From: David Peterson
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: Existential clauses

I'm still not sure what you mean by that.  As far as I'm concerned, in
"The man is on the lawn", "is on the lawn" is a description of the
man -- or, at the very least, just as much of a description as "happy"
in "The man is happy", or "teacher" in "The man is a teacher".

[...]

It's pointing out that something exists, such that it is x.  These types
of constructions are usually dealt with differently than those you
brought up.  Is that what you were talking about?

---------------{ MY REPLY }---------------

Well, as it seems I should either a) get totally rid of "to be", b) have
"to be" act like in English, or c) have a locative "to be". OTOH, d) you
could see the sentence "I am in the garden" also as "There is me in the
garden". Remember that not all languages deal everything as English
does*. But then it could be "there is me being happy" either, but that
wouldn't fit how adjectives are handled. It's a mess.

:-/ I think you're right. What follows "to be" is *always* a description
of the subject here (thinking in English). I think i'd be most happily
with solution c).

BUT!!!!! I've seen there is already another reply at the server that was
not in today's digest but will be in tomorrow's:

From: Philippe Caquant
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 07:57 AM (GMT+1) <-- O.o So early!
Subject: Re: Existential clauses

 > - existence, or presence : Il est un pays cher à mon
 > coeur (old style, seldom used by now). Et la lumière
 > fut (literary style).

Ack, my French is too bad for that. What does that mean in English?

 > - identity. Ex: L'assassin, c'est le notaire. Ceci est
 > ma maison. Paris est la capitale de la France.
 > - instantiation (sort-of) : Un moineau est un oiseau.
 > Je suis un homme.

Maybe this is where I'd use "to be"? Nevertheless, as David said, here
what follows "to be" is also an adverbial.

 > - intrinsic quality : Ces cerises sont rouges. Les
 > basketteurs sont souvent grands. Ce problème est
 > difficile (see NB)
 > - temporary, reversible state : Elle est malade.
 > - transitory, irreversible state : Il est encore
 > jeune.

That's where you'd omit "to be" in Ayeri.

 > - cyclical state : Le feu est au rouge. Il est dix
 > heures.
 > - [social] function : Il est facteur.
 > - spatial relation : Le Tibet est en Asie.

I'm not sure how to handle these.

 > - various comparisons : Il est plus grand que moi. Tu
 > es moins riche que lui...
 > - (probably many more)
 > Plus purely grammatical uses, like :
 > - part of 'passé composé' tense : Il est parti.
 > - passive forme : Il a été frappé par des hooligans.

In Ayeri, you'd handle these different anyway.

I have to think about this all again, that'd be best. Maybe I'll ask
again next week.

-- Carsten

*) Maybe this is an excuse for anything? I don't feel too well with
this.

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