Re: very confused - syntax question

>From: Sally Caves <scaves@...>
>
>J.Barefoot wrote:
> >
> > It was bound to happen sooner or later - I have thoroughly confused
>myself
> > with my own syntax.
> > Here's the deal: only a topic or an agent/experiencer can be a subject.
>So
> > if the originator of the action is not an agent/experiencer per se, the
> > patient is topicalized/focused (I recall we discussed the difference,
>but I
> > don't quite recall the discussion), the verb is put is the middle voice,
>and
> > the originator of the action is assigned another appropriate role, such
>as
> > benefactor.
>
>These are rules that you want to stick to?  I can understand that you
>do,
>but I haven't been following prior discussions of your rules of syntax,
>so
>I'm in the dark.
Yes. I like these rules, and I'll change word order to fit them.  Perhaps I
should explain relative clauses a little.  A relative clause should be just
a sentence, marked with the initial particle "na." so it should go something
like this:

my two brothers [they won the prize]
my two brothers na they won the prize

the problem is "they won the prize". Only a transitive verb can be inflected
for person; intransitive must have a free pronoun. And by typing it out, I
have come to a clarification: How can "they" be understood as the originator
of the action when it fills the object position in the sentence? Should I
make a rule that the verb is inflected for semantic agent instead of
grammatical subject and that "transitivity" as it applies to verb inflection
is to be defined in terms of semantics and not necessarily what is
grammatically marked  in the sentence? Kinda seems like a cop-out...but
maybe that is it.  I think Kristian's got the right idea; I think I'll go to
bed and have a nice long chat with my informant.

> > ta rusa-k@-mi siu na a-kanyase ko kanyan-al-ena inya kah
> > with brother-pl-my two that the-prize TOP.past
>won-middle-they.resumptive
> > they.resumptive BEN
> > with my two brothers who won the prize
> >
Maybe that's right after all. Maybe I need someone who knows syntax to step
in and tell me I'm wrong.  (Oh, c'mon, that's asking for it. Don't be shy
now. ;-))

Thank you for all the helpful comments so far, Sally and Irina.

Jennifer


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