Re: IE Langs with unusual case systems

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:34:08 -0500, Andrew Chaney <adchaney@...> wrote:

>I was thinking the other day about making a language using IE* roots
>and an IE-derived case system.  But I'd like to fiddle with the cases
>so that they end up being used for functions other than one would
>expect.
>
>That is, I'd like to have some system where somehow the language
>ends up using the genitive for the subject of sentences and the
>dative for direct objects. Something like
>
>        "My hitting is to you" -> "Hitting my is to you"
>        hit.participle 1.s.genitive be.1.s you.dat
>        for
>        "I hit you".
>        Allowing for a language with VSO structure and Nominative
>        and genitive cases becoming identical. That sort of thing
>        or something similar....
>
>Does anyone know of any real languages that do something similar?
>Does anyone have any comments (+ or -) in genereal?
Well, you might be pleased to know that there certainly are IE langs that
do something similar. If the IE case-langs you're familiar with are Latin
and German, then you've just bumped into two rather "boring", really
regular langs, in what regards case usage. Ancient Greek is more
interesting; it makes much wider use of the genitive case (as an ablative,
for example, or for distinguishing animate objects with some verbs, such
as "akouein" - listen). Another one is Old Norse, or Modern Icelandic:

        Ég         hrindi            þér
        I        push down           you

    1p sg nom    1p sg act ind     2p sg dat

That's an object in dative, though the meaning would seem direct. Plenty of
those, even objects in genitive (!); prepositions can also govern genitive.
The abnormal case usage probably comes from old instrumental usages, and
elisions or drop-outs of prepositions or other items, leaving just naked,
illogical, case.

Óskar