Re: Russians and their palates was Re: [CONLANG] Palatalized uvular stop

On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 03:30:39PM -0400, Trebor Jung wrote:

> However, what I am unsure about is the distinguishability of, e.g., [b_jj] ~
> [b_j].
Ok, sorry about that.

> And, presented with your explanation above, should I now assume that
> [b_jj] = [b_j?j] or [b_j_}j]?
Well, no, you sort of need to go more in the opposite direction for
this one.  (Not to mention, is b_j_}, or any _j_}, even *possible*? :)
For anyone who doesn't want to look that up, it's palatalization *plus*
"no audible release".  I know, it's probably in *some* language...)

But anyway, what p_jj sounds like (the standard example has a p (thanks
for jogging my brain, John); I don't know if there are any examples with
a b), in for example p'jann1j, is almost like p'iann1j, except that the
i is a j.  That is, there is an almost syllable-long beat where they are
holding the /j/, pronouncing it in a more fricative fashion than we would
in English (maybe almost like a /C/).  By contrast, p'at' ("five") is
pronounced with a super-short /j/ sound before the a.

So I guess the conclusion is: if a language wants to have a phonetic
contrast, they'll find a way, but sometimes it involves a bit of work ;)

Thanks,
Amanda