Re: Re : new language; langmaker
|From:||J. Barefoot <ataiyu@...>|
|Date:||Tuesday, July 20, 1999, 23:25|
>Reply-To: Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...>
>To: Multiple recipients of list CONLANG <CONLANG@...>
>Subject: Re : new language; langmaker
>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:43:09 EDT
>Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 19/07/99 21:14:24 , vous avez =E9crit :
> > I need to share. I've been sketching a new language (called Meanate) ==20
> > the only morphology is nominal. Or something like that. Here's an=20
>i was quite sure you would do that looking from your Asiteya grammar.
>let me quote a previous post of mine ;-) :
>anyway i like it (Asiteya) then because it combines ergative
>and nominative and active/patientive systems.
>(i think you have the full range needed cases for that)
>maybe a step towards another allnoun conlang ? ;-)
>there are basically 2 kinds of allnoun conlangs :
>those to make all verbs from nouns and those to make
>all nouns into verbs. very different strategies ;-)
>anyway, i'm afraid you can't help using nouns of action
>and state like "seeing" because your human brain
>is like that.
>the problem with allnoun is that you can't cope with aspects
>very well because each noun you pick as predicate has a specific
>aspect which does not always agree with the aspects of other
>arguments. verbal voices are made to achieve such agreement,
>i.e., to refer to the various aspects of the whole process
>where arguments each play a role at a certain time ('aspectivation').
>but in allnoun, you don't have voices anymore, so you have
>to cram aspect in cases.
>and if you want many nouns to have a potential role
>and become predicates in turn (like english does)
>you need as many cases as pairs of nouns.
>english just do that :
>stone > to stone a convict
>hammer > to hammer
>man > to man a ship
>dog > to dog the master
>ship > to ship goods
>flower > to flower
>if you really want to make this clear, it can become fairly long :
>to stone =3D to throw stone at
>hammer =3D to beat with a hammer
>to man =3D to hire a crew for
>to dog =3D to follow your master as a dog usually does
>making an allnoun language is just like that. the needed cases are
>like the verbs hidden in english noun-derived verbs. you usually start
>listing the cases of the few basic "official" systems
>(active/passive, ergative/absolutive, equative/attributive,
>volitive/unvolitive, etc). but then you may endlessly refine it.
>let me list you some of them according to the "vision" chosen :
>"active/passive vision" :
>i hurt john
>that's 2 cases :
>"ergative vision" :
>stative : make broken > broken / be broken
>attributive : make wound > wound / have wound
>terminative : make into breakings > breakings / become breakings
>that's 4 cases :
>so it's 2+4 =3D 6 cases.
>user / instrument / fuel / material / facility / pattern / etc.
>transformative example (with result) :
>baker / oven / firewood / dough / receipe > bread
>processive example (no result implied) :
>cyclist / bycicle / road / etc.
>so that's 6 more cases :
>so it's 6 + 6 =3D 12 cases.
>it's a classic also called "trigger case system"
>by some conlangers :
>"X is Y's brother"
>"X is 10-meter large"
>"X makes Y be Z's chief"
>"zazie makes road 126 be my way"
>that's 2 more cases :
>so it's 12+2 =3D 14 cases
>very chic. usually used for intellectual stuff :
>experiencer / faculty / "topic" / representation
>john (experiencer) sees (faculty) a tree (topic)
>john (topic) looks (faculty) stupid (perception)
>so it's 14+5 =3D 19 cases.
>these are notional, not spatial or temporal cases.
>you may need :
>dependence (from, ab-)
>i take a cookie from you / you are my cookie provider
>impendence (to, ad-)
>i give you this / you receive this
>i am a man
>this is quite different from status because it points at
>nature, not role.
>then the spatiotemporal cases :
>locative (by, in)
>and 150 other ones if you want.
>you can make up your own ones too. i recommand :
>performive : i do-sport
>you may consider it's absolutive.
>ambulative : i go-round
>important one if you don't want to use "to go" ad nauseam.
>so with 25 or so cases you should be a happy allnouner like
>i was once. hope you enjoy.
25 cases? 25 cases? This is not what I had mind. Again, sigh.
Yeah, I did try to base which cases on Asiteya and that quote. Thanks for=
responding. All right, I'll try it, but 25 cases? I wish I could find tha=
link to Kelen...
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