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Re: Re : new language; langmaker

From:J. Barefoot <ataiyu@...>
Date:Tuesday, July 20, 1999, 23:25
>From: "From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html" =
><Lassailly@...> >Reply-To: Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...> >To: Multiple recipients of list CONLANG <CONLANG@...> >Subject: Re : new language; langmaker >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:43:09 EDT > >Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 19/07/99 21:14:24 , vous avez =E9crit : > > > I need to share. I've been sketching a new language (called Meanate) =
>where > > the only morphology is nominal. Or something like that. Here's an=20 >example: > >i was quite sure you would do that looking from your Asiteya grammar. >let me quote a previous post of mine ;-) : > >-------------- quote >anyway i like it (Asiteya) then because it combines ergative >and nominative and active/patientive systems. >(i think you have the full range needed cases for that) >maybe a step towards another allnoun conlang ? ;-) >------------- quote > >there are basically 2 kinds of allnoun conlangs : >those to make all verbs from nouns and those to make >all nouns into verbs. very different strategies ;-) >anyway, i'm afraid you can't help using nouns of action >and state like "seeing" because your human brain >is like that. >the problem with allnoun is that you can't cope with aspects >very well because each noun you pick as predicate has a specific >aspect which does not always agree with the aspects of other >arguments. verbal voices are made to achieve such agreement, >i.e., to refer to the various aspects of the whole process >where arguments each play a role at a certain time ('aspectivation'). >but in allnoun, you don't have voices anymore, so you have >to cram aspect in cases. >and if you want many nouns to have a potential role >and become predicates in turn (like english does) >you need as many cases as pairs of nouns. >english just do that : > >stone > to stone a convict >hammer > to hammer >man > to man a ship >dog > to dog the master >ship > to ship goods >flower > to flower >etc. > >if you really want to make this clear, it can become fairly long : > >to stone =3D to throw stone at >hammer =3D to beat with a hammer >to man =3D to hire a crew for >to dog =3D to follow your master as a dog usually does >etc. > >making an allnoun language is just like that. the needed cases are >like the verbs hidden in english noun-derived verbs. you usually start >listing the cases of the few basic "official" systems >(active/passive, ergative/absolutive, equative/attributive, >volitive/unvolitive, etc). but then you may endlessly refine it. >let me list you some of them according to the "vision" chosen : > >"active/passive vision" : >i hurt john > >that's 2 cases : >nominative >accusative > >"ergative vision" : > >example : >stative : make broken > broken / be broken >attributive : make wound > wound / have wound >terminative : make into breakings > breakings / become breakings > >that's 4 cases : >ergative >absolutive >attributive >terminative > >so it's 2+4 =3D 6 cases. > >"instrumental vision" > >user / instrument / fuel / material / facility / pattern / etc. > >transformative example (with result) : >baker / oven / firewood / dough / receipe > bread > >processive example (no result implied) : >cyclist / bycicle / road / etc. > >so that's 6 more cases : >agentive >instrumental >fuelive :-) >materialive :-) >facilitive :-) >patternive :-) > >so it's 6 + 6 =3D 12 cases. > >"role-attribute vision" >it's a classic also called "trigger case system" >by some conlangers : > >"X is Y's brother" >"X is 10-meter large" >"X makes Y be Z's chief" >"zazie makes road 126 be my way" > >that's 2 more cases : >status >relative > >so it's 12+2 =3D 14 cases > >"experiencer vision" >very chic. usually used for intellectual stuff : >experiencer / faculty / "topic" / representation > >example : >john (experiencer) sees (faculty) a tree (topic) >john (topic) looks (faculty) stupid (perception) > >so it's 14+5 =3D 19 cases. > >"transfer vision" >these are notional, not spatial or temporal cases. >you may need : >dependence (from, ab-) >i take a cookie from you / you are my cookie provider >impendence (to, ad-) >i give you this / you receive this > >"equative vision" >i am a man >this is quite different from status because it points at >nature, not role. > >then the spatiotemporal cases : >locative (by, in) >and 150 other ones if you want. > >you can make up your own ones too. i recommand : > >performive : i do-sport >you may consider it's absolutive. > >ambulative : i go-round >important one if you don't want to use "to go" ad nauseam. > >etc. > >so with 25 or so cases you should be a happy allnouner like >i was once. hope you enjoy. > >mathias > >
25 cases? 25 cases? This is not what I had mind. Again, sigh. Yeah, I did try to base which cases on Asiteya and that quote. Thanks for= =20 responding. All right, I'll try it, but 25 cases? I wish I could find tha= t=20 link to Kelen... Jennifer _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit