Re: deeply embedded VSO nightmare

In a message dated 10/19/01 2:38:24 PM, annis@BIOSTAT.WISC.EDU writes:

> >Anyway, to my recent horror I have discovered that due to how Vaior
> >word order works -- VSO, Noun - Modifier, Adj - Modifier -- that
> >gigantic ambiguities develop when using participles and relative
> >clauses.
> >
> >This is fine:
> >
> >    tuar-o   va tath-an   daip-oth-an        fid-íal  aldove-n.
> >    see-PRES I  woman-ACC walk-PRES=PART-ACC fast-ADV home-ACC
> >    I see a woman walking quickly home.
> >
> >But this:
> >
> >    ler-o   na  tath  daip-oth       fid-íal  aldove-n
> >    go-PRES the woman walk-PRES=PART fast-ADV home-ACC
> >
> >could be either "the woman walking quickly is going home" or "the
> >woman walking quickly home is going."  Granted the second
> >interpretation sounds a bit odd, but it's an example of the
> >ambiguities I've run into: which verb does 'aldoven' go with when the
> >meaning doesn't make it entirely clear.
> >

Since my Diom is nominally a VSO language I thought I should try ut these
sentences and see how they work. Here's my results for what its worth. I hope
it helps some. I am also not a linguistics expert, this is just how my
language works.

Diom is funny in that theoretically any word order is correct, but some are
more correct than others. VSO is the unmarked order, other orders change the
implications, emphasis, etc. In this post I'll stick to the VSO options and
not try to mess with all the other possibilities.

Vocab:
an      woman
tripan  walk
laizh   quick
pas     go
bolm    home
vaed    see

(Basically, you can ignore the grammar bits on the ends for purposes of this
post. Ask if you want details.)

For "I see a woman walking quickly home." I can translate it either:

Vaedlis laizhaja tripanchenel t'bolmaeor anel.
"See (I) quickly walking to home woman."
or
Vaedlis anel laizhaja tripanchenel t'bolmaeor.
"See (I) woman quickly walking to home."

Both come out meaning the same thing with no real ambiguity, just a matter of
preference, do you want to wait through all the modifiers to get to the
object or not. The first is more unmarked (modifiers before noun) but the
second is probably clearer.

For the problematic pair:
1) "The woman walking quickly is going home."
2) "The woman walking quickly home is going."
I get three possibilities:

A) Pasten t'bolmaeor laizhaja tripanchene an.
"Goes to home quickly walking woman."

B) Pasten laizhaja tripanchene an t'bolmaeor.
"Goes quickly walking woman to home."

C) Pasten laizhaja tripanchene t'bolmaeor an.
"Goes quickly walking to home woman."

differing mainly in the placement of  --t'bolmaeor-- "to home (loc.)"

A is unambiguously #1. In this sentence the verb is effectivly
-- Pasten t'bolmaeor -- "going home".

B is ambiguous and could mean either 1 or 2.

C is unambiguously #2, since --t'bolmaeor-- is stuck amidst the other
modifiers of woman.

The verb "walking" turns into a participle and acts like an adjective so
doesn't produce any ambiguity in my sentences.

Mind you, I'm not very linguistically knowledgeable so most of my analysis is
just on the "feel" of my language. But I hope it helps.

One other bit: I was worried the first sentece might be ambiguous, possibly
meaning:
"I see a woman walking quickly home."
or
"I see a woman as I am walking quickly home."
You could certainly get the second out of the Diom. But there is a much
better way to translate the second sentence

Vaedlis anel, tripaniva laizhaja t'bolmaeor.
"See (I) woman, while walking (I) quickly to home."

using a verbal adverb --tripaniva-- to indicate simultaneous actions, and
since this form is much prefered there should be no real ambiguity.

David Stokes.