Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Telona on the web at last

From:Jean-François Colson <bn130627@...>
Date:Tuesday, April 22, 2003, 16:10
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christophe Grandsire" <christophe.grandsire@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Telona on the web at last


> En réponse à Jean-François Colson : > > > >The [@] is deleted then [Z@tOfr] becomes [ZtOfr]. > > Rather [R] than [r], unless you speak with alveolar trills ;))) .
Of course! To indicate the pronunciation of words many dictionaries use the normal r instead of the turned r (in English) or the turned small cap. r (in French). That's why I made that mistake.
> > >Because of the following [t] the [Z] assimilates to a [S] ==> [StOfr]. > > Yep :) . > > >But what I avoid (therefore I didn't think to it) is the deletion of the > >final "r". > >More I very rarely spend time in cafés... > > Me too ;)) . I personally never delete the final [R]. > > >In fact the deletion (which I avoid) of the final consonant in words
ending
> >in a consonant cluster is quite common in Belgium and it is combined with > >another phenomenon: the unvoicing of the final consonant. Then "table" > >[tabl] becomes an homonym of "tape" [tap]!!! > > Hehe, never really heard that but it doesn't surprise me :)) .
Look at http://www.chez.com/belgicismes/ and click on "Prononciation". Of course that's only a tendency and not everybody speak like that. E.g. in § c.: I never say [mwatSe], [dZa:p] or [tSEd] but I find difficult to hear the difference between the "-gn-" of "pignon" and the "-ni-" of "opinion". And about the § d.: When I was younger (more than 15 years ago -- I'll be 28 years old next month) I remember I said [fo~tE~nlevEk] instead of [fo~tEnlevEk] (Fontaine-l'Évêque, a town when I lived during 7 years (où j'ai vécu 7 ans)), [Z@tE~m] instead of [Z@tEm], [teknisjE~n] instead of [teknisjEn] (technicienne, the feminine of technicien [teknisjE~]... Is that a Belgian pecularity or is that predicted by some "universal"? -- I'm not a linguist.
> The tendency > for unvoicing final stops is there already in Standard French (where for > instance the liaison consonant of a word like "grand", i.e. the final stop > that appears in speech only when the next word begins with a vowel, is a > [t] rather than a [d]), and deleting final liquids after a stop fits with > the Sonority Sequencing Principle (a universal, thus only a tendency like > every universal in linguistics ;)) ) which states that the maximum of > sonority must be the syllable peak and that sonority must decrease around > it, with stops being less sonorant than fricatives, themselves less > sonorants than liquids and approximants. So for instance a coda like [bl] > is breaking this principle, with sonority increasing rather than > decreasing.
That's exactly why I sometimes pronounce the final "e".
> Standard French doesn't mind, but fast spoken French and > obviously Belgian French seem to put more importance in this principle and > thus delete the final liquid to erase the break :)) . > > Christophe Grandsire. > > http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr > > You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang. >

Reply

Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>