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Re: pinyin proposal

From:Alex Fink <a4pq1injbok_0@...>
Date:Monday, January 22, 2007, 2:51
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:09:27 EST, MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM wrote:

>In a message dated 1/20/2007 8:41:52 PM Central Standard Time, >un.doing@GMAIL.COM writes: > > >> Everything said and done, Pinyin is a more regular spelling system >> than many alphabets in the world, IMO.
What gets me is the alternations that certain finals show according to whether there's an initial. Who ordered <wen>~<un> and <you>~<iu> and all that? (Unless I'm mistaken and there is a phonetic difference there...)
>But it could have been even better: >(pinyin, my proposal) >s s c ts z ds >sh j ch tj zh dj >x x q tx j dx > >This way the relationships among the different letters/sounds is obvious.
At first I was going to say that <j> doesn't really suggest retroflexion to me, and if you'd only thrown a <z> in there you could have had Mandarin-disguised-as-Basque. But then I realized that you can't leave out the velar series: it's pretty parallel to these three, phonologically. So <h k g> should actually be <h th dh>. And why stop there? What the romanization of Mandarin _really_ needs is a stribography! (Warning: spelling proposal by utter non-speaker ahead!) = Consonants = (in onsets and rimes) == Manner (and phonation) == <0> fricative <t> aspirated stop/affricate <d> unaspirated stop/affricate <n> nasal (from Pete Bleackley's seminal work) <l> approximant, or if you prefer voiced fricative == Place == <0> alveolar nonstrident (this way <t>, <d>, <n>, <l> can stand for themselves) <s> alveolar strident <r> retroflex (<j> doesn't feel right here; besides, we need it elsewhere. <r> is Pete's usage) <x> alveolopalatal <h> velar (keeping the fricative-letter theme) <f> labial which amounts to Pinyin <b p m f d t n l g k h 0 j q x zh ch sh r z c s> stribo <df tf nf f d t n l dh th h lh dx tx x dr tr r lr ds ts s> = Vowelly stuff = The analysis of Mandarin that gives it only two vowels /a @/ with some syllables vowelless (as on Wikipedia) is natural for stribography: they'll be <a e>. Glides are written just as in Gwoyeu Romatzyh onglides: <i> palatality <u> rounding The Pinyin consonants <n ng> are still <n nh>. <lr> will do for erhua, but Pinyin <er> should probably be <er>. = Tone = The tone letters are stolen from Hmong, and follow the syllable. number <1 2 3 4 0> stribo <b v m j 0> Converting some of a random pinyinized song ( to see what this looks like: lranhj lhuem dxianhb nim xienblherv draibxiaj rjdre dxianhb tab nfanjnfanj lruenhvhuaj thanj lhuem dsaij nim xienbdruenhb rj-feum lrenhv lhuanvnfeim lhuvxiav rj-feum lhiblranv lhueijlhuem sbsb txianbdhuaj lhiblranv lhaij lhuem lhuvfam dsjdfav xienbdruenhb rj-feum lhieum lhuem lhueijtsenhv daujdhue de dijfanhb lha All in all a bit too almost-sane to really be comparable to htwvitbveuotkvwvahfi, I think, but there are still some nice ones in there (<dsjdfav> looks wonderfully like someone just pounded their fingers on the home row). Alex


Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>