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Re: triphtong

From:tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...>
Date:Saturday, June 25, 2005, 14:48
Hello, everyone, and thanks for writing.
About those triphthongs.
For most (not all by a long shot) diphthongs, either the on-glide or
the off-glide is either palatalization or labialization; is that not
Similarly, but partly-independently, very many mono-syllable
diphthongs could just as easily be considered as a vowel preceded or
followed by a semi-vowel; that is, either CV or VC, where C is a semi-
vowel.  Is that not true?
Assuming all that, the easiest way to construct a triphthong would be
to tack a semi-vowel onto the front or back of an existing diphthong;
Twenty easy examples might be (just assuming English pronunciation):
waw, wew, wiw, wow, wuw;
yay, yey, yiy, yoy, yuy;
way, wey, wiy, woy, wuy;
yaw, yew, yiw, yow, yuw.
No, I don't know how to pronounce the CiC or CuC ones either;
and I'm aware not all the others are words even in English.
But wow, yay, and yow are interjections in some dialects and/or
registers of English; and way, yaw, and yew are perfectly good
English words.
Aren't "way" and "yaw" triphthongs?
"yew" might just be a diphthong:-- straight from high-front-unrounded
to low-back-rounded.
Also, the usual English-language way of pronouncing the name of the
25th letter of the Latin alphabet, "Y", often spelled "wye", is a
triphthong, isn't it?
Now, here's a couple of questions:
How many and which triphthongs in how many and which natlangs aren't
possible to consider as semivowel-plus-diphthong nor as diphthong-
Among the others, for which ones is it not possible to consider as
the semivowel either (sorry this isn't C-XSAMPA) "y" or "w"? (that
is, either pre-palatalization, pre-labialization, post-
palatalization, or post-labialization.)
I know it's not kosher to ask a third question in "a couple of
questions", but; Are the statistics for the above two questions
significantly different for triphthongs than for diphthongs?
Thanks for writing.
Tom H.C. in MI

--- In, Ray Brown <ray.brown@F...> wrote:
> On Friday, June 24, 2005, at 04:36 , Joe wrote: > > > Henrik Theiling wrote: > > > >> Hi! > >> > >> Joe <joe@W...> writes: > >> > >>> # 1 wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> In my dictionnary (a French dictionnary), at the
word "triphtong"
> >>>> (triphtongue) it says the normal stuff: a vowel that changes
> >>>> times but they give as example the english word "fire" > > The description of a triphthong is correct, but the example is not
a good
> one - because...... > > [snip] > >>> It's a triphthong in my British dialect. [fAi@]. In American > >>> English, I believe it's more like [fAjr=]. Also, see 'hour'
> >>> IME. > >>> > >> > >> Doesn't it need to be one syllable to be a triphthong? > > It most certainly does. > > >> I never > >> thought Japanese 'blue/green' = 'aoi' was a triphthong, but it
> >> three monophthongs. > > I agree. > > >> I'd say that 'fire' and 'hour' should be two > >> syllables, no? I perceive them as: > >> > >> hour [aU@] /aU).@/ not /a_U_@/ (no CXS for a
> >> fire [fAi@] /fAi).@/ not /fA_i_@/ > >> > > 'hour' and 'fire' probably are disyllabic for you. > > > I'd describe them both as monosyllables, at least the way I say
> > ..and they are obviously monosyllables for Jo. > > The simple fact that there is quite a bit of variation in the > pronunciation of these words, even in Britain let alone the rest of
> anglophone word. > > As monosyllables they are pronounced either with a triphthong /aU@/
> /faI@/ or, in those areas where /r/ is trilled, as /aUr/
and /faIr/. One
> also comes across the pronunciations [A:] and [fA:]. > > As disyllables they may be /aU).@/ and /faI).@/ as given above. In
> Cardiff & Newport areas of south-east Wales they are ['@u).w@] and > ['f@I).j@] - I believe similar pronunciations where the second
> clearly begins with a semi-vowel or approximant occur elsewhere. > > I have no doubt there are other variants in Britain. > > I say English _fire_ is a bad example of a triphthong because: > (a) the word does not contain a triphthong in all anglophone > pronunciations; > (b) those that do pronounce a triphthong, do not pronounce the more > typical type of triphthong. > > The triphthong, when used, in _fire_ is a falling one; the vowel
is /a/
> (or some similar low, central vowel) then the tongue glides towards
> before moving to the central [@] position. Triphthongs more
typically IMO
> begin are a combo of rising diphthong & falling diphthongs and
> examples are Italian words like: _suoi_ "his/ her" ( and
> "my" ( > > Ray > =============================================== > > ray.brown@f... > =============================================== > "A mind which thinks at its own expense will always > interfere with language." J.G. Hamann, 1760