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Re: triphtong

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Saturday, June 25, 2005, 6:48
On Friday, June 24, 2005, at 04:36 , Joe wrote:

> Henrik Theiling wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Joe <joe@...> writes: >> >>> # 1 wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In my dictionnary (a French dictionnary), at the word "triphtong" >>>> (triphtongue) it says the normal stuff: a vowel that changes two >>>> times but they give as example the english word "fire"
The description of a triphthong is correct, but the example is not a good one - because...... [snip]
>>> It's a triphthong in my British dialect. [fAi@]. In American >>> English, I believe it's more like [fAjr=]. Also, see 'hour' [aU@], >>> IME. >>> >> >> Doesn't it need to be one syllable to be a triphthong?
It most certainly does.
>> I never >> thought Japanese 'blue/green' = 'aoi' was a triphthong, but it fact >> three monophthongs.
I agree.
>> I'd say that 'fire' and 'hour' should be two >> syllables, no? I perceive them as: >> >> hour [aU@] /aU).@/ not /a_U_@/ (no CXS for a triphthong...) >> fire [fAi@] /fAi).@/ not /fA_i_@/ >>
'hour' and 'fire' probably are disyllabic for you.
> I'd describe them both as monosyllables, at least the way I say them.
..and they are obviously monosyllables for Jo. The simple fact that there is quite a bit of variation in the pronunciation of these words, even in Britain let alone the rest of the anglophone word. As monosyllables they are pronounced either with a triphthong /aU@/ and /faI@/ or, in those areas where /r/ is trilled, as /aUr/ and /faIr/. One also comes across the pronunciations [A:] and [fA:]. As disyllables they may be /aU).@/ and /faI).@/ as given above. In the Cardiff & Newport areas of south-east Wales they are ['@u).w@] and ['f@I).j@] - I believe similar pronunciations where the second syllable clearly begins with a semi-vowel or approximant occur elsewhere. I have no doubt there are other variants in Britain. I say English _fire_ is a bad example of a triphthong because: (a) the word does not contain a triphthong in all anglophone pronunciations; (b) those that do pronounce a triphthong, do not pronounce the more typical type of triphthong. The triphthong, when used, in _fire_ is a falling one; the vowel is /a/ (or some similar low, central vowel) then the tongue glides towards [I] before moving to the central [@] position. Triphthongs more typically IMO begin are a combo of rising diphthong & falling diphthongs and better examples are Italian words like: _suoi_ "his/ her" ( and _miei_ "my" ( Ray =============================================== =============================================== "A mind which thinks at its own expense will always interfere with language." J.G. Hamann, 1760


Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...>