Re: USAGE: 'born'

Muke Tever <alrivera@...> wrote:
>
> From: "Dennis Paul Himes" <dennis@...>
> > [Muke:]
> > > The canonical example English speakers know is "se habla español",
> > > 'Spanish is spoken'.
> >
> >     It's odd, but I never would have interpreted that as a passive,
> > despite the fact that it gets translated into a passive in English.  I
> > think of that as the impersonal subject use of the reflexive, as in
> > "One speaks Spanish." It obviously can be interpreted as passive,
> > though (hence the English translation).
>
> But that is what the passive is, though, isn't it?  The subject-agent of
> the active sentence is demoted, and the patient of the active sentence
> becomes the new subject.
    Yes, that's why I agreed with you in the hablarse case and disagreed
with you in the nacerse case.

    Much of the rest of your post dealt with linguistic technicalities which
are well beyond my competence, but I would like to note:

> some examples from the Teonaht page of English-like uses:
>
>     << The pork cooks up nicely
>        The jacket wears well
>        It feels soft
>
>        i.e.: The pork is being cooked up (by someone)
>        The jacket is normally worn well (by anyone)
>        It is felt to be soft (by the speaker). >>
>
> ...although this probably isn't relevant at all :|
    These seems to be examples of the English phenomenon of verbs for which
the object of the transitive form is the subject of the intransitive form.
The canonical example is "break":  "The window broke; I broke it."

 ===========================================================================

             Dennis Paul Himes    <>    dennis@himes.connix.com
             homepage: http://www.connix.com/~dennis/dennis.htm
        Gladilatian page: http://www.connix.com/~dennis/glad/lang.htm

Disclaimer: "True, I talk of dreams; which are the children of an idle
brain, begot of nothing but vain fantasy; which is as thin of substance as
the air."                      - Romeo & Juliet, Act I Scene iv Verse 96-99