Re: Star Names (was; Re; Back!)

On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:19:03 +1200 andrew <hobbit@...>
writes:
>Wilwarin and Valacirca appear low on the horizon.  Menelmacar is more
>prominent in the night sky, but anyone who remembers Cuivienen might
>find
>it odd because the Swordsman of the Sky is upside down.  Later
>travellers
>after the Rokbeigalm used the stars to mark the changing of seasons,
>for
>example, the rising of the Pleiades in spring marks the beginning of
>the
>year.  Gil-Estel is also prominent in the night sky.  Several groups
>that
>settled southern seas long after the Rokbeigalm had passed away found
>one
>lesser group of stars significant enough to adopt it as an emblem of
>identity, the Southern Cross.
>
>- andrew.

Okay, let me get out my _Silmarillion_...
Wilwarin = Cassiopeia
Valacirca = Ursa Major
Menelmacar = Orion
Gil-Estel = it says that this is Earendil in Vingilot with his silmaril -
Venus?

Looking at a star chart of the Southern Hemisphere, Wilwarin and the
Valacirca don't seem to be visible from there, where the Rokbeigalm
live.... or are you talking about before the Third Age, when Arda was
still flat?
Hmm...their names for the constellations would be different, (except
maybe Cassiopeia), since they don't know much about the Valar, and they
have no swords.  Besides which, i've always thought that Orion looks more
like he's holding a bow than holding a sword.  Aryon....that's a nice
name..._Trorif s''Aryon_, /tro'riP sar'jon/ (with [r] = tap/flap) "Hunter
with Bow".
And when the world was flat they would have seen the Unmoving Star
themselves, and not have it be only a legend that only Stiigiyus and a
handful of others have actually seen.  That would explain the existence
of the legend.

I was looking at the Ardalambion Tolkien's Languages Website, and it had
this entry under "Mannish Tongues":
~~~~~~~~
TALISKA
An early Mannish tongue called Taliska is mentioned in The Lost Road:179;
this was the language of Beor's people, the ancestor of Adunaic. It was
influenced by Green-elven (Nandorin)....Only a few words from the early
Mannish languages of the First Age are known; in War of the Jewels:238,
270, 309 we find hal "head, chief", halbar "chieftain", hal(a) "watch,
guard", halad "warden", haldad "watchdog", bor "stone".
~~~~~~~~

What's interesting is that in Rokbeigalmki, the suffix added to a verb
root to make it a "do-er" noun when the root ends in a vowel is _-dh_.
So "hal(a)"+"d(h)" is pretty much the same in Taliska as it would be in
Rokbeigalmki.  Also, the compound _halbar_, _bar_ means "child" in
Rokbeigalmki.
So Rokbeigalmki now has a verb _haila_, "guard, watch".  :)


-Stephen (Steg)

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