Romance demonstratives (WAS: Just a Little Taste of Judean (Part 2))

Nik Taylor <fortytwo@...> wrote:
> Tom Wier wrote:
> > Yeah, from "ille, illa, illud".  My Latin's pretty rusty, but I'm pretty
sure
> > that Spanish "esta" etc. descend from another Latin demonstrative,
> > "iste".
>
> Si.  And "ese", etc. derives from _ipse_ (as in "ipso facto"), and
> _aquel_, etc. comes from _ecce ille_, a stronger form of _ille_.
As in Pilato's _Ecce homo_?
What was _ipse_? I was under the impression that it meant "same",
"self-" (Spanish/French _se_?) but I can't figure out how that
could evolve to mean "that".

BTW, this answers part of my other post, so thanks.
(Aside: interesting idea for a verb -- "to thank for doing
something that was beneficial for a purpose, but that was
done without knowledge of that purpose." :-))

> Incidentally, Latin for _this_, _hoc_, died out except for the word for
> "today", _hoy_ < _hoye_ < _hodie_ < _hoc die_ (on this day).  Very
> nicely distorted, the only remnant of _die_ isn't even a syllable, just
> /j/.
Very nice indeed. And French _hui_ (in _aujourd'hui_),
does it come from that expression too? Now *that* would be
distortion!


--Pablo Flores

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