Nur-ellen in the world of Brithenig (was Re: Nur-ellen universes)
|From:||Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg.rhiemeier@...>|
|Date:||Monday, August 28, 2000, 23:33|
> Am 08/27 01:18 J?rg Rhiemeier yscrifef:
> > Thank you for "officially" adopting my language into your universe!
> You're welcome.
OK. So we can now work out the details ;-) And another conlang of
independent origin joins the line-up! (Is there a list of languages
spoken *there* available on the Net? If not, let's compile on here in
Are their also maps (both political and linguistic) of Britain, Europe,
the world *there*?
> > [Nur-ellen speakers vs. fairies]
> Accepted. _Lla ffefil deg_ is a calque of Welsh Tylwyth Teg, the only
> fairy or elf name I have found that I could adopt into Brithenig to my
> satisfaction. It appears that in this late Age Eldar analogies are very
> rare in popular belief. As yet I have not adopted a word that describes
> Tolkienian Elves.
Is the concept alive *there* at all (other than in the shape of the
Nur-ellen folk), or buried in old mythology? I mean, there might not be
an equivalent to JRRT *there*.
> And I agree, Beaker Folk descendents or Nur-ellen
> speakers should not be described as 'fairies, Fair Family, etc.'
BTW: Does Kemr include what *here* is Warwickshire and Staffordshire?
(It seems so judging from the description of the boundary on your page.)
I ask this because this way, both Mindon Gwar (Nur-ellen Mind`n War,
English Warwick) and Tavrobel (Nur-ellen Tavrob`l, English Great
Haywood) would be in Kemr. They could be decent-sized cities (perhaps
about 100,000-200,000 each)
with substantial Nur-ellen speaking minorities. What would they be
named in Brithenig? Are the Brithenig names translations of the
Nur-ellen names (Mind`n War means "watchtower", Tavrob`l means
"forest-town") or adaptations to Brithenig pronunciation of spelling
(which would give something like "Mindyn War" and "Tafrobyl")?
How strong can the "Elvish" element be in Kemr? How many people still
speak Nur-ellen, and how alive is their original culture?
I can imagine that there is some kind of "Elvish Heritage Revival
Movement" of young (and not-so-young) people seeking a better life who
study the ancient (pre-Celtic!) culture of the Elves (I imagine those
pre-Celtic Elves to have been culturally actually quite similar to
Tolkien's, even though they were not immortal or anything), worship Eru,
celebrate festivals at the old sites (such as the Stonehenge or the one
in the city centre of Tavrob`l - right in the heart of the city, there
is a circular open space surrounded by standing stones and tall trees) -
and learn the Nur-ellen language.
I think this could enrich the Brithenig timeline, but it should not be
Viewed from a strict alternative history viewpoint, we are walking on
*very* thin ice here, as we are speculating about remnants of a
civilization that predates the Celtic invasion and is almost completely
unknown to the historians *here* who have found little more than a few
pieces of pottery and consider the attempts of a certain English scholar
to reconstruct their languages to be pure fiction.
> > Of course, Nur-ellen *there* will differ from Nur-ellen *here*.
> > [...]
> > atombomb "atomic bomb", lager "concentration camp", katset "ibid.",
> > natsi "Nazi", kernkraftverk "nuclear power station", brenshtab "nuclear
> > fuel rod",
> > and quite a number of others.
> > The language has also borrowed from English, Welsh, Irish and other
> > languages.
Possibly also from Hebrew, Yiddish and Romani.
> > Nur-ellen *there* certainly has a different set of borrowings, including
> > many from Brithenig. How parallel is the history of continental Europe
> > *there*? Was there a Nazi Germany, for instance?
> There were 'Great Wars' in Europe in the Brithenig time-line, at least
> two. The history of these events have not yet been ascertained.
According to Padraig's post, there was a German Empire which seems to me
to have caused trouble *there* as well even if they weren't Nazis. So
perhaps the German borrowings exist in Nur-ellen *there* as well?