Group Conlang (was: Re: a Conlang, created by

Herman wrote :

On Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:07:55 -0300, Pablo Flores
> <fflores@...> wrote:
>
> >c) Case markers are prefixed (Carlos and Mathias both proposed
> >this, and we the others have stayed silent), so adpositions have to
> >be postfixed according to b).
>
> But my proposed system has gender/number prefixes and case suffixes. I =
> just
> didn't have time to get around to it last night.

Yes, we have noticed that some prefer suffixes and others prefixes... from the very
first post of our project :-))

In my last post I propose to vote on such issues.

If the poll is not quite reflecting your preference, please tell us.


>
> >Finally, I think we could begin creating some words... This is
> >a big step, but necessary to try these wonderful theorical
> >structures we've made up. For my part, here are some (to be
> >discarded later, if you want to).
> >
> >frar-  "dog"
> >kjak-  "bite, bit"
> >wiv-   "red"
> >s-     "I, me, first person"
> >qaun-  "hard, strong"
>
> Examples for some of these might be useful, especially since "hard" and
> "strong" have numerous meanings in English.
>
> >Case markers:
> >a-   agent
> >pe-  patient
> >di-  predicate
> >ys-  undergoer
> >mu-  modifier
>
> I don't especially like pe- or ys-.

I know you artists take great care of that :-)

Ok, why not limit the first mock case tags to VOWELS ? Nobody will complain it's
not nice, (which will be inevitably the case with consonants, I know that much
;-)

>
> >Other markers:
> >-o, -i  (dummy gender markers)
> >-ul  past tense
> >-e   present tense
> >
> >_afraro pesi dikjakul_
> >a-fraro   pe-si     di-kjak-ul
> >agent-dog patient-I predicate-bite-past
> >"The dog bit me"
>
> Iin the case system I proposed that would be:
> a-frar-a s-u kjak-ul
> the-dog-agent I-patient bite-past
>
> or using -u as a perfective suffix, and putting the tense on the noun:
Ditto : I propose vowels (or consonants ?) as suffixes


>
> a-frar-ul-a s-u kjak-u
> the-dog-past-agent I-patient bite-perfective
>
> a-frar-a s-ul-u kjak-u
> the-dog-agent I-past-patient bite-perfective
>
> >_ysfraro diwive_ or _ysfraro muwive_ ?
> >undergoer-dog predicate-red-present or modifier-red-present ?
> >"The dog is red"
> >
> >Is "being red" a real predicate? Or should we use a modifier
> >in final (verbal) position to rended the "to be" copula?
>
> Being able to distinguish predicates from modifiers might be useful for
> word order flexibility: we could say "the-dog red-modifier" for "the red
> dog" without having it be confused for "the dog is red".

Yes, that's the very difference between 'vocabulary' and 'sentence' to make it
short and jargon-less.


>
> >Note that if stems always end in a consonant as we decided,
> >at least a postfixed inflection will have to be added in order
> >not to produce invalid syllables such as _kjak_ (stops are not
> >allowed in syllable-final position). This should be gender for
> >nouns, and tense for verbs... at least a generic tense.
>
> or aspect.

Yes, I prefer aspect rather than tense, because it's easier to show tense with an
adverb or a noun, and easier to show aspect affixed to verb (see Japanese,
Slavic languages)

But Pablo and others will like tense affixes, so I'm OK with that.



>
> >A final example:
> >
> >jol- "leg"
> >la   "in" (postp)
>
> (specifically "in" as "location of action", or can it also be used for
> "inside"?)
>
> >_afraro jolo la pesi dikjakul_
> >"The dog bit me in the leg"
> >
> >_jolo la_ "in the leg" is before _pesi_ "me" because it's supposed
> >to modify it somehow (it's my leg, not anyone else's).
>
>
Hold on : you're mixing here

absolute attribute : my leg (vs. relative attribute : 'my house' vs. 'my home')

indirect patient : I'm bitten to the leg

spacial semantic meaning of words : in = in the inside part of the leg, or : at the
leg, or : on the inside of the leg (in case of empty leg :-), or : through the
inside of the leg, etc

(pant pant)

isn't it a bit too early ? :-)

Mathias


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