Re: CHAT: Ebonic Xmass

At 6:09 pm -0600 13/1/00, Tom Wier wrote:
> Of course the
>idea that blacks, whoever they are, act like ghetto stereotypes is
>reprehensible.
Yes, indeed.

Another ethnic group this side of the pond was forced often to live in
ghettos at different times and in different places over the last millennia
and half; for cenruries they were stereotyped not only by the common people
around them but, sadly, even in literary texts.  They were the but of jokes
& derision.  The result: in the first six years of my life, six million of
me fellow Europeans were murdered for no other reason than that they
belonged to the 'wrong' ethnic group.

The idea that any one - black, brown, yellow, white - acts like any sort of
stereotype is utterly reprehensible.  Indeed, I find stereotyping in
general distasteful - for fairly obvious reasons.  And when the
stereotyping is racist then, I sorry, but I abominate it thoroughly,
utterly & entirely.

I thought this thread would soon dry up - then came Roland's insulting email:
>>And I have to say it is rather pitiful that until Gray Wizard
>>expressed his outrage, nobody else seemed to mind.  Very, very
>>genuine, people!
Sorry I live in the wrong hemisphere & didn't see abrigon's offensive
doggerel until _after_ David had replied.

Sorry I committed the terrible offense of actually agreeing with other people.

Apparently if I live in the wrong time zone and express any agreement with
what some else has said, I am not genuine!

>>This is the kind of snobbish, arrogant attitude
Er - Who is being arrogant?

Isn't it rather arrogant to assume people who express support for some else
are not genuine?   Or does Roland mean something different by "arrogant".

Throught all this sorry thread, the mailer I have found I 'resonate' the
most closely with has been John Cowan.  I've read a mail & thought about
replying to find that John has replied and said exectly what I'd like to
say but rather more consicely than I often manage :-)

In the many years I've read John's mails on this list and other lists, I'm
found John one of the most genuine people I know (only electronically,
alas).  Yet Roland questions his genuiness.  Roland says he, like me, is
arrogant & snobbish.  <sigh>

>>that occurs regularly on these lists, and which hightens nobody's
>>opinion of anyone here.
Er??
Is Roland talking about the Conlang list I've known for the last couple years?

Some three or fours years back Roland might've been justified in making
this statement.  But the mud-slingers departed long ago.  In the last
couple of years it's been generally quite a pleasant place & people have
remarked from time to time on the cameraderie here.

And as for the 'free speech' argument - one can invoke that to 'justify'
putting out the obscenest pornography, for promoting pedophilia on the net,
for stirring up racial hatred etc. etc. etc.  The argument is bogus.  I was
taught when I was young that there is a difference between freedom &
license.

In any case, isn't this list about constructed languages?  What relevance
did abrigon's doggerel have to language construction?
All it has done as far as I can see is to stir up splits in the list - great!

Ray.





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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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