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Re: introduction Middelsprake

From:Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder@...>
Date:Sunday, July 3, 2005, 20:54
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:33:52 +0300, Julia "Schnecki" Simon
<helicula@...> wrote:

>Hello! > >There seems to be some technical problem. Your mail arrived without >any line breaks whatsoever. I've now inserted some where it made >sense...
## Dat is fremmed, ig forsta nik warfor dat ware so. Doch, tanke di. >
>On 6/29/05, Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder@...>
>> > >> >> >> Wat ig wilde wete gerne, is: >> >> >> *kan du lese dis? >> > >> >Javisst. I mean, yes. :-) >> #Dat is fantastisch > >:-D > >> >> *in fal du kom fran en land mid en Germanisch sprake, helpe dat di to >> >> forsta Middelsprake? >> > >> >Yes and no. (Which reminds me -- does Middelsprake have a word that >> >corresponds to that extremely useful German word _jein_/_jain_, >> >meaning "yes and no"?) >> #You just added a word to MS vocabulary: [jEi] = yes&no, cross word >> from = yes + = no, a synonym of MS [ja:"nEi], like in Dutch where we >> just say "janee" > >Glad to hear that I helped you there. I guess _jein_ is also on my >(unofficial because not written-down) list of words that absolutely >*have* to go into the vocabulary of any conlang of mine... >
##Ig hadde ennoch nik tenked an en word likas "jei", doch nu du seggede det, ig tenke dat ware en slim good idé. Doch: ho kanne du bruke en Dütisch word in andre künstlig sprakes, oller mene du: een konsept likas "jein", on de word self kan have en heel andre form?
>> >First of all, I sort of come from two countries with Germanic >> >languages (depending on your definition of "coming from"); I'm from >> >Germany originally, and I'm a native speaker of German, but I've been >> >living in Finland -- to be precise, in the south of Finland, where >> >there's a sizable Swedish-speaking minority -- for more than ten >> >years. >> # MS means both and , so: where are you from (country, city) and >> where are you coming from/where do you come from (any place). > >Ah, I see. So MS, like so many other languages, has the ambiguity of >"I come from Finland (because my place of residence is there)", "I >come from Germany (because I was born there)", and "I come from the >library (because that's where I spent the last two hours)". And >probably also "I come from $name_of_company (because that's my >employer and they sent me here to help you, get information from you, >drop off the merchandise you ordered, or whatever)". > >But I'm sure you have ways to distinguish these things if you want to, >right? Something like (guessing from German and Swedish and the things >I know about Dutch phonology) _bue_ (Sw. _bo_) or _woone_ >(G. _wohnen_) for "have one's place of residence"; _stamme fran_ or >_stemme fran_ (G. _stammen aus_) for "be (originally) from"; and so >on. (I'm probably way off on everything except _fran_ here, but you >get what I'm trying to say. ;) >
##Ig leve in Swedenriik = I am from/live in Sweden ##Ig is boren in Swedenriik = I am from/was born in Sweden ##Ig kom nu fran Swedenriik = I just came from Sweden (from a trip)
>> # Spreke du okso Swedisch on Finnisch, oller alene Swedisch? Leve du >> in en stad/torp war de folk spreke Swedisch oller Finnisch, oller >> boide? > >Jag bor i Vanda, där det finns både finsk- och svenskspråkiga folk och >där alla trafikmärken är tvåspråkiga (fast finnarna är i majoritet). > >OK, back to English now: I live in Vantaa (if you speak Finnish) / >Vanda (if you speak Swedish), and there are Finnish- and >Swedish-speaking people there and all the road signs and street names >and so on are bilingual; but the majority of the people here is >Finnish-speaking. (That's probably true for most coastal regions in >Finland, except for some of the islands, which have a strong >Swedish-speaking majority.) > >I speak both languages (or at least I do my best ;) . I came here to >learn Finnish originally, but I noticed soon that if you already know >German and English, Swedish doesn't require that much extra effort. >(Besides, some knowledge of Swedish is very useful when dealing with >Finnish slang!) However, my Swedish-speaking friends tell me that it's >quite unusual for a foreigner in Finland to study Swedish, unless they >happen to live in Åland (probably the only part of Finland where >*everybody* speaks Swedish).
##Du ha komd to Finland to lerne Finnisch, wau! Ig ha ofte tenked okso to ga to en land, on lerne de sprake. Ig hadde wild lerne Tjechisch in Prag, Hungarisch in Budapest, oller Russisch in Petersburg, doch ig ha doon dat niver. Fantastisch dat du ha doon dat, Julia!
> >> >However, it wasn't so much my knowledge of German and Swedish (and the >> >bits and pieces I know of Norwegian, Danish, and Dutch) that helped >> >me... My German didn't help much at all (I'm from the south, not even >> >close to the area where Low German is spoken). My Swedish was much >> >more useful; but the most important factors were my knowledge of the >> >history of the Germanic languages and my ability to use simple >> >(guesstimated) phonetic correspondences to "convert" unknown >> >Middelsprake words into some German or Swedish word I know. :-) >> #Du ha forgeted Engelisch ;-) > >Nej, det har jag inte. :-) Actually my English was about as useful (or >useless) as my German here, unless you count the time I spent reading >your English translations and explanations, of course. > >> Ig is lükkig dat du segge du kande forsta MS meer fordat du kenne >> Swedisch den fran Dütisch. Mennisches fran Skandinavie segge ofte MS >> is meest likas West-germanisch, folk fran (Süd-)Dütischland segge >> det is likas Saksisch, on anderes tenke an Frisisch oller >> Nederlandisch. Doch de kan al lese on forsta det. Dat mene dat al >> folk kan kenne weder tinge fran forskillig sprakes in MS, on ig mag >> lide dat. > >Well, my Swedish helped me more than my German because MS, like >Swedish (but unlike Standard German), never went through the second >(High German) sound shift (the one that gave us e.g. _Wasser_ in >German, as opposed to _water_ in English, _vatten_ in Swedish, and so >on). If German and Swedish were the only options to choose from, I'd >have to say that all Germanic languages except for Standard German and >the High German dialects look sort of Swedish to me (except for >English, which looks like a weird cross between Swedish and Latin). >;-) > >But since German and Swedish are not the only options, I can say that >MS looks sort of Danish-Dutch-Low German (which probably includes >Frisian) to me. Even though I'm technically from southern Germany, it >doesn't look Saxon at all -- maybe because it's so different from what >little I remember of the Saxon-colored German my grandmother spoke. >Too strong influences from the west (Dutch) and north (Scandinavian >languages) in MS, I guess. -- Or maybe the language/dialect I call >"Saxon" ("Sächsisch", the German dialect spoken in the bundesland of >Saxony, and to some extent also in other regions in eastern Germany) >just isn't the one you call "Saksisch"?
##Jei ;-) Wat ig name Saksisch er först miin boide Nedersaksisch "moder- dialekts", doch de Nedersaksisch af Nord-Dütischland is naturlig de saam sprake. Miin moderspreake is Nederlandisch, dat is okso slim likas Nedersaksisch, doch in de Nord on Öst af Nederland, man spreke okso Nedersaksisch. Ig is boren in Winterswijk on kenne dettes dialekt, doch fran miin sövede jaar ig ha leved in Drenthe, war man ha en ander dialekt. Doch for di, kommend fran Süd-Dütischland, de er magschee boide "Swedisch"! ;-) Ingmar
> >> >> *forsta du al uter problem, kan du forsta de halfte, oller alene en
>> >> af dis? >> > >> >Almost everything. The two words I could make no sense of with my >> >historical-phonological method (_meen_ and _krüsworde_) I was able to >> >guess from the context. (Of course my guessing was made easier by your >> >explanation of _krüsworde_ in another mail. ;) >> # meen = E mean, G gemein, NL gemeen = common > >That's what I guessed from the context. My method led me to _mean_ and >_mine_ -- and also _moan_, _moon_, and _mane_ at a very low >probability -- and one of them made somewhat more sense in that >sentence than the others. ;-) > >Regards, >Julia >