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# Re: CHAT: measures (was: browsers)

From: Tristan Tuesday, February 11, 2003, 4:30
```John Cowan wrote:
> Tristan scripsit:
>
>>>The U.S. fl. oz. is about 29.6 ml, and there are 16 of them in
>>>a gallon.  In the U.K., though, the fl. oz. is about 28.4 ml, but there
>>>are 20 of them in a gallon.
>
> Of course this was a blunder: 16 fl. oz. U.S make a U.S. pint, and 20 fl. oz.
> Imperial make an Imperial pint.  8 pints of whichever size make a gallon,
> as Dirk says.
I thought you were off a bit, but I didn't say it because I couldn't
correct you and you've used them all your life, whereas I only know of
them because I find 375 mL, 600 mL and 1.25 L to be odd measurements.

>>(I think. I worked it out because I knew that Australia used
>>to have a pint that sat somewhere between 500 and 600 mL,* and America
>>has one that's less than 500 mL,
>
> Imperial pints are ~ 568 ml, which I'm sure was the Australian value also.
> Hence the British beer-drinker's lament:  a litre is too much, half a
> litre is too little, but a pint, ah, a pint is just right!  Won't work
> in the U.S., of course, since our pint is only ~ 473 ml.
And how about 600 mL? Is that too much for you, you little-bladdered
Englishtypes? (Oh, and some restaurants which want to look oldfashioned
call 600 mL 'pints'.)

I guess you can Americanise it as half a litre's too much, no litres is
too little, but a pint, ah, a pint is just right! :)

>>Hm? So weight is done in only pounds?
>
> Oh, no, the ounce, unqualified, is still a measure of weight.  There are
> 16 oz. to a pound (1 oz. = ~28.34 g, 1 lb = ~ 454 g).  However, gold and
> silver are measured in troy pounds, which have only 12 troy oz. each.
> (1 troy oz. = ~ 31.1 g, 1 troy lb. = ~ 373 g.)  Hence the old question,
> "Which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold?" to which
> the answer is "A pound of feathers", because it is an ordinary (aka
> "avoirdupois") pound.  If lead is substituted for gold, of course they
> weigh the same.
The question survives, but with 'kilos', and is purely a trick question
because a kilo of feathers and a kilo of gold weigh exactly the same amount.

> But I thought you were talking about *dry ounces*, which are a measure
> of volume for solids only.  1 dry oz. = ~ 1.16 fl. oz.  These are
> extremely obsolete, fortunately.  A bushel, however, is 8 dry gallons.
> (The bushels in which grain is sold, however, are weight-based, and
> their size depends on what the grain is.)
Oh, sorry. I wanted to make it different because you see on various
American webpages 'oz' when measuring liquids, which I've assumed were
fluid ounces, and so wanted to make a distinction.

(I also just want to make sure: a bushels still used? And things like
horsepower? Links, rods and chains? I'm guessing quarters (2 stones)
aren't. And that's all the odd ones I haven't heard on the back of this
exercise book.)

>>(Apparently Americans don't use
>>stones, either, and there goes my knowledge of weight measurements.)
>
> No, no stones in these parts.  People's weight is in pounds.

>>>BTW, a tablespoon (unit of volume in cooking) is 20 ml in Australia,
>>>15 ml in the U.K., and approximately 14.7 ml (exactly half a fl. oz.) in
>>>the U.S.
>>
>>I have a feeling teaspoons are different too. Cups are obviously
>>different between Australia and America, but given that a cup here is
>>250 mL (quarter of a litre), I'm guessing they're the same in the UK.
>
> Nope, a cup is half a pint or 4 fl. oz., which in the U.K. is ~ 284 ml.
> The smaller cup in the U.S. holds ~ 237 ml.
Oh, so the UK have metricated tablespoons but imperial cups? They're
just trying to confuse themselves, aren't they?

>>Not that cookbooks are compatible at the best of times; mince here is
>>(mince) meat, over in America it's apparently some fruit-based thing,
>
> Mincemeat is mincemeat everywhere.
Obviously enough. It just depends on what mincemeat is where you are ;)

> Mince is the chopped dried fruit
> used to make mince pies, which presumably once contained mincemeat.
> Ray Brown (IIRC) told me that mince pies were so-called in the U.K. as well,
> and likewise did not contain meat.
The thing is, you don't find mince pies here, at least not often, so
that 'mince' and 'mince meat' (and 'minced meat') are all beef that has
been minced. Mince pies would probably be called fruit pies or somesuch
like that, and 'mince pie' would be interpreted by most as a meat pie
with an ingredient in it that you could tell was mince (and likely
homemade, or at least home-style), as opposed to that brown goo you find
inside meat pies.

(Because Christmas is in an entirely different season here, when it's
generally hot, the way it's celebrated as changed, unless you're say
Coca-Cola, who has to use Santa Claus and snow and darkness and everything.)

Tristan.
```

### Replies

 John Cowan Elyse Grasso Joseph Fatula