Re: y sound

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barrow" <davidab@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: y sound


> Joe wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Barrow" <davidab@...>
> > To: <CONLANG@...>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 3:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: y sound
> >
> > > I won't argue figures, but most Spanish speakers don't distinguish y
and
> > ll,
> > > and the pronunciation for ll (and y) in most of South America is [j].
> > [dZ],
> > > [Z] and [S] are mostly heard in Argentina and Uruguay
> > >
> >
> > My (English) Spanish teacher, who lived in Colombia for a while says
[dZ].
> >
>
> I say mostly Argentina and Uruguay.  Did he learn his Spanish  in
Colombia?
> perhaps his hearing can't distinguish [J\] from [dZ]
>
That's a possibility.  He mostly learnt it in Colombia, though his wife
learnt it in Argentina, so he could have picked it up off her.

> > And my Mexican Spanish teacher says [J] or [J\], I think.
>
> I went here:
>
> http://www.i-foo.com/~kturtle/misc/xsamchart.gif
>
> to check IPA for [J] and [J\], and then I went here:
>
> http://www.ling.hf.ntnu.no/ipa/full/
>
> and clicked on consonants (pulmonic). Now, I can accept  [J\] for ll and y
> but definitely not [J].  [J] is the sound of ñ (that's n with tilde if it
> doesn't come through on anyone's email).
Is [J] |ñ|? Oops.  I thought it was the fricative variant of [J\].  And
there it is, I got [J] mixed up with [j\].

> This site:
>
> http://cerezo.pntic.mec.es/~ffras/fonologia.pdf
>
> does say that [L] has disappeared for the vast majority Spanish speakers
it's
> [J\] for both y and ll; though I'm zapping between Peruvian, Chilean,
Mexican,
> and Spanish TV channels on cable and I'm hearing a mixture of
> [J\] and [j] mostly [j].
>
> David Barrow
>