Re: English [dZ]

On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 17:51 +0100, Jean-François Colson wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vertical" <johnvertical@...>
> To: <CONLANG@...>
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] English [dZ]
>
>
> > Tristan McLeay wrote:
> >
> >>So perhaps a more complete more summary summary:
> >
> > Thanks aplenty - very informative!
> > However, this reminded me of another issue... (In case the continued
> > existence of this thread annoys someone, I can always take it off-list.)
> >
> >>/j/:
> >>In "long u" (cute). In reflex of /ew/ (new).
> >
> > My non-native dialect still keeps those two distinct (the former is /ju:/ or
> > /u:/ while the latter is /jy/ or /y:/), [...]
>
> What? Are there really dialects of English with a high front rounded
> vowel? Where? And which words are concerned?
I think Scottish has /y/, doesn't, in place of RP /u:/ and/or /U/ in
some words. I don't know exactly how far front it is.

The Australian & New Zealand English vowel /u\:/ (u-dashed, equiv. of
RP /u:/) is nowadays about as far front as the AusE /&/ which puts it
front-of-centre and apparently further forward than the vowel denoted
as /y(:)/ in some other languages. It doesn't contrast with a back /u:/,
although it has an allophone [U:] which is very obvious to native
speakers, even though it's fully automatic (primarily before /l/). It's
the same as Swedish /u\:/ to my ear, and very similar to /y(:)/ in many
other languages that have it ... though not to the Swedish /y(:)/ which
sounds more similar to AusE /I/ or /i:/ or /I@/ and doubt if you can say
it while smiling! AusE long o also apparently has an allophone described
as [a_"y], but in those descriptions the environment is lacking...

I think the American English vowel /u/ (again, equiv. of RP /u:/) can
get pretty far front in some dialects, particularly after coronals.

There's also dialects with what could be described as a mid front
rounded vowel. Mostly I think these are instances of /3:/. AusE and
NZE /3:/ tends to be mid-close and relatively front and rounded, which
happened earlier and is carried further in NZE, hence [2:] is not a bad
description of the NZE vowel and is used by various authors. I think the
same similar things happen in various English dialects, with various
levels of openness. I think some dialects might get close with their
realisations of "long o", but that might be my ear hearing one thing for
something different...

--
Tristan