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Re: Dominus (Was: Re: Werewolf)

From:Benct Philip Jonsson <bpjonsson@...>
Date:Friday, September 22, 2006, 17:39
R A Brown skrev:
> Paul Bennett wrote: >> There are lots of apparently nonsensical[*] sound changes and >> alternations all over PIE, > > l/d, r/d, r/s, r/n, l/n,
There is nothing strange or random at all about these changes; in fact in each pair the one can change into the other with the loss or addition of a single feature, except for s > r which is still quite natural if you consider the steps: s > z > r\ > r. Some dialects of modern Greek have /r/ corresponding to ancient Δ, which is still a one-feature per step change whether it was directly [d] > [4] or it was [D] > [r\] -- or even [D] > [4]!
> I do not see anything nonsensical about medial [r] becoming [l]. It is > AFAIK not an uncommon change, nor is it confined to IE langs.
Indeed. Moreover these changes tend to happen as remote assimilation or dissimilation.
> [snip] >> [*]By which I mean more or less regular, but not easily understood >> without resorting to the "if /ni/ can become /a/" defense, which >> verges on the Chewbaccan. > > But the point is that the change from archaic Chinese /ni/ to the modern > Yangchow dialect /A/ was effected by a series of *regular* (not more or > less, but precisely regular) sound changes. As Y.R. Chao pointed out > (and I quote) "all the steps being reflected in other parallel changes, > geographical as well as historical."
Notably it is not *a change* but *a series of changes*. None of the individual changes is remarkable at all: ni > n\z\i > z\i > z`i > z`i\ > r\= > @r\ > Ar\ > A Where n\ transcribes Chao's symbol for alveopalatal nasal. <digression> Chao devised three symbols for alveopalatal stops and nasal, which were not accepted by the IPA but are in Unicode's Latin Extended B block as U+0221 U+0235 , U+0236. I hereby motion that they be adopted into CXS as t\ d\ n\. They may not be distinguished from /c/ etc. or /t_j/ etc. in any natlang, though Chao implies they are in some form of Tibetan, but they probably are at least important allophones in the Sohlob languages (my conlangs). Anyway it does feel a bit daft to transcribe _nc, nj, ny_ as [Jts\ Jdz\ J] since this nasal phoneme is definitely alveopalatal, while an actual mediopalatal nasal occurs as an allophone of /N/.
> The point is that one cannot arbitrarily rule out a change of one set of > sounds into another, without knowing the diachronic development of > sounds in the related languages; I see nothing Chewbaccan in this. Thus, > one cannot arbitrarily rule out the possibility that Latin -icella > became -isoara in Romanian; one has to know how sounds developed from VL > to modern Romanian. >


Benct Philip Jonsson <bpjonsson@...>Alveopalatals (fuit: Re: Dominus (Was: Re: Werewolf))