Re: Tsuhon: tentative phonology

<snip>
> >
> > What's happening in the example I gave then?
>
> It's no High German, but heavy dialect.  I would have problems
> understanding that. :-)  Anything can happen in dialects, but
> I would not label it High German then.
Yes, that is "heavy dialect". I've noticed that the further north I go the
more difficulty I have understanding the local dialect, with the amusing
exception of Sachsen and Thueringen.

>
> > Might that just simply be due
> > to Niederoesterreich starting with [n]?
>
> Probably a contraction then, yes.  *That* happens in my pronunciation,
> too.  Probably due to the absence of geminates that have to be
> pronunced like a single consonant: [vOni:d62:st6RaICaUs].  But I would
> analyse that both syllables share the [n].
>
Then, two extra-short [n]'s?

Tho in my speech geminates exist. I don't know if that is influence from
the German dialects that influence my speech or if it is interference from
Hungarian; there is no occurence of it in my English.

> > > And finally, initial /v/ I find *very* strange and don't think I can
> > > remember to have heard that.  But Yoon Ha also said she'd encountered
> > > that.  Maybe I simply do not notice, because the brain reconstructs
> > > an /f/ phoneme immediately. :-)  Who knows.
> >
> > two to one, we win ;)
>
> Ok. :-)
>
> > Seriously tho, I'm not sure what to think. I'd put money on it that I've
> > heard voicing in the 'v' when the preceding sound is voiced; otoh it might
> > just be quite fortis voiceless.
>
> Was it in what I'd harshly label dialect and, therefore, would not let
> count? :-)
>
Yes, in Eeschtraaksch.

I think what we need to do is something I've had difficulty with for a
long time: determining the distinction between what is truly "High
German" and what is dialect.

In my experience the speech of Frankfurt am Main is fairly close to what I
generally consider to be High German [namely that what they speak on
Deutsche Welle], so is that HG or dialect that lays close to it?

I find that in big cities generally the speech is fairly close to Standard
HG [or is that just people reciprocating when they hear me speak HG? Tho
even my HG is a bit coloured by dialect, example I say /IS/ for /IC/ and
/nISt/, or even /nIt/ if I'm not being careful, for /nICt/] but I've
noticed that the speech of certain cities I'd consider dialect, like
Berlin, Koeln, Hamburg, Rostock.

> Really, I have no scientific data about this.  It was all just my
> feeling.  But a strong feeling, of course.
It's often feelings like that which lead to interesting discoveries.

-------ferko
Ferenc Gy. Valoczy

Suurt chugunikka peene ahjo suhe et toukka.

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