Re: Tsuhon: tentative phonology

> > I think what we need to do is something I've had difficulty with for a
> > long time: determining the distinction between what is truly "High
> > German" and what is dialect.
>
> Usually you can see from the vowels whether it is High German.  Maybe
> if the second German vowel shift applies, I'd consider it HG.
> I.e. `Haus' and `Baum' have the same diphthong and no monophthongs.
> `Euch' has [OI] and not [aI] or anything.  There are rounded front
> vowels.  These I would take as indications.  If all apply (maybe
> others), I'd consider it HG.
Okay, I understand this part. I guess what was confusing me is whether it
is still HG even if it's coloured by the speaker's native dialect...tho I
guess it would be...

> > I find that in big cities generally the speech is fairly close to Standard
> > HG [or is that just people reciprocating when they hear me speak HG? Tho
>
> No, I'd say that it's usually correct that cities have clearer HG.
Okay (but I would contend that Wien is a great exception, and Zuerich
too!). Now that leads me to be curious: what causes this? Why would it be
HG they speak there and not a more "standardised" version of the local
dialects? (I mean, besides the "one country - one language" thing).

>
> > even my HG is a bit coloured by dialect, example I say /IS/ for /IC/ and
> > /nISt/, or even /nIt/ if I'm not being careful, for /nICt/] but I've
>
> I say [?IC] and [nIC].  If the fricative drops in `nicht', I'd start
> thinking it's no HG anymore.  Dropping the end-T seems ok.  But it's not
> clear who makes up these rules, right. :-)
>
Idiot me. I made a typo, I meant [nIk] not [nIt], [nIt] (or even [nEt] is
how I normally say it. Actually there is a little system I
discovered: When talking slowly and carefully, I always say [IS] and
[nISt]. When speaking quickly but still paying attention not to go into
dialect, for example when in Hamburg, then the varieties exist:

[Ik], [IS], [nIk], [nIS]

I'm not entirely certain when I use which, but some examples would be

[IS ha:b] = ich habe
[das Is nIk gu:t] = das ist nicht gut
[das Is nIS falS] = das ist nicht falsch
[Ik ge: tsUm ba:nhOf] = ich gehe zum Bahnhof (which I'd normally call
[d@s ba:nhaIz5=]

I was also looking at those sentences again...and I think in the 5th
sentence, "So, er darf schon bald wieder laufen", I might actually be
saying [v_wi:d_05=AUfn+] (where [5] is velarised [l]) as opposed to
[v_wi:46 lAUvn=] as I originally noted. That [v] or [f], I can't really
tell what it is.

-------ferko
Ferenc Gy. Valoczy

Suurt chugunikka peene ahjo suhe et toukka.

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