Re: CHAT : Origin of the name "Northumbria"

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:56, Ray Brown wrote:
> On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 12:05 , Joe wrote:
> > Rodlox wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> I always thought it was pronounced "north-umbria"...didn't know about
> >> the Humber.
>
> Well, more like "nor-thumbia" really.
>
> >> so, it's actually "nort-humbria" then?
> >
> > No, it's pronounced as expected.  The /h/ just got absorbed into the /T/.
>
> yep - just like we usually write 'North Hampton' as Northampton and 'South
> Hampton' as Southampton   :)
>
> Also _Northumbria_ is really a part latinization of _Northhumberland_ (<--
> North Humber Land).
And isn't Humber related in some way to "Cumber" in Cumberland, and also to
Cymru - Wales?

There was a Welsh kingdom in that general area up till the time of Offa, if I
remember correctly, which probably isn't the case here.
> ===============================================
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2004, at 10:03 , Joe wrote:
> > Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> Not from _what_, but from _where_; I'm not interested in the etymology,
> >> but
> >> _where_ the name was coined, specifically whether in Northumbria itself
> >> or
> >> somewhere south of the Humber.
> >
> > Ah, right.  Well, either possibility seems likely to me.  Because
> > Northumbria was the union of two kingdoms (Bernicia and Deira), it is
> > possible it was a name coined for the new entity by the Northumbrians -
> > called so because it now contained all the lands north of the Humber.
>
> That sounds perfectly plausible. The kingdom would have to call itself
> something and I've never heard it called 'the United Kingdom of Bernica &
> Deira'   ;)
>
> I have tried to check, but haven't so far been able to confirm it - but it
> seems mos likely to me that the termed was coined by those in the kingdom
> north of the Humber (and south of the Forth) to designate the kingdom.
>
> > Or, as you say, it could have been an (exonym?).
>
> Yes, but if it was, what was the 'endonym' ?     ;)
>
> Ray
> ===============================================
> http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown
> ray.brown@freeuk.com
> ===============================================
> Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
> which is not so much a twilight of the gods
> as of the reason."      [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]
--
Wesley Parish
* * *
Clinersterton beademung - in all of love.  RIP James Blish
* * *
Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."