Re: Improved (Short) Ygyde

From: "Andrew Nowicki" <andrew@...>
Subject: Re: Improved (Short) Ygyde


> Joe Fatula wrote:
> JF> Hmm... from what I recall of the Ygyde cataloging system,
> JF> this could be a problem.  I agree that removing some of those
> JF> repeated sounds makes the word sound better, but aren't those
> JF> sounds important to indicate the meaning of the word?
>
> In the Standard Ygyde a consonant always follows a vowel and a
> vowel always follows a consonant. If there is a missing consonant
> you know it is the same as the previous consonant. If there is
> a missing vowel, you know it is the same as the previous vowel.
Let's call Ygyde-minus-duplicate-sounds "Ygyde2".  So from what you're
saying, I suppose that a speaker of Ygyde2 would simply realize that the old
word "ababedu" is now pronounced "abaedu", which therefore would obviously
come from the roots "a", "ba", "be", and "du".  That makes sense, and could
conceivably work.

> JF> Are you still looking to make an international language,
> JF> or is Ygyde just for fun at this point?  If you're still
> JF> working on it as an IAL, it's got a long ways to go, but
> JF> if it's just for fun, I think it's kind of interesting.
>
> It is both. I made lots of changes in the dictionary and the
> number table to make the words sound more distinct. There are
> still only 180 root words and about 500 predefined words.
> I am still unhappy with the sound of many 7 letters long Ygyde
> words. It seems that the best way to handle them is to cut them
> to 5 letters.
A different way to fix the long words would be to redefine some of the
roots.  Consider that you have 180 categories with which to divide up all
things.  If some of these categories are not very useful, then the
distinctiveness of them is not being put to good use.  Perhaps Ygyde would
work better if the categories were more useful for common, everyday items.

> Perfection does not exist, so when we judge Ygyde, we should
> compare it with similar languages (Ro, aUI, Lojban, and Ododu).
I would agree that there is no one perfect language (if there were, we'd all
speak it).  But if you want Ygyde to become an international language, as
you've said, then remember that you're not just competing with Ro, aUI, etc.

As a philosophical language, you're absolutely right - Ygyde's strength in
the philosophical language category should be measured against other such
languages.  But as an international language, Ygyde is competing with all
other languages, natural and artificial.  For that reason, I (and anyone
else in the world) would weigh Ygyde against any other language they know,
asking themselves which is better for communication.  If one feels more
awkward, it won't get used as much.

> I am a very narrow minded conlanger so I will not hang around
> for long. I am interested only in languages that make compound
> words from short roots.
Would you hang around if someone else were working on a language that made
compound words from short roots?  Inspired by both Ygyde and our earlier
discussion of it, I'm thinking of making one myself.

> JF> Either way, I'd suggest changing the pronunciation of "y"
> JF> to something else, because the way it is now, it's too
> JF> similar to "i" for most people.  The u-umlaut sound in
> JF> German would be good - it's distinct, relatively common in
> JF> the world's languages, and it's sometimes represented by "y".
>
> "H. S. Teoh" wrote:
> HST> I agree. I have a lot of trouble distinguishing between
> HST> [I] and [i]; I can hear the difference easily, but I think
> HST> of them as the same phoneme, and I> often mispronounce one
> HST> for the other. But I like [y], I think it's a beautiful
> HST> sound.[1] :-)
>
> I agree. "y" and "i" sound too similar. I will check the
> u-umlaut. An imperfect solution to this problem is the Long
> Ygyde, which has only 13 letters: a u i b p d t g k w s m l.
> Most Long Ygyde root words are 3 letters long (CVV).
Please post the address for Long Ygyde again, as I don't have it anymore.

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