Re: Pablo is back, Job, Argentina, Relay, Lord of the Rings

On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:07:34 +0000
kam@CARROT.CLARA.NET wrote (K:)


PS [Prescript]: I think the attributions are a little mixed up here.
  Keith's first comment is in response to me, and his second in
  response to Elliot. Stephen.

> Stephen Mulraney <ataltanie@...> writes (S:)
S:> "fiach dubh" /f'ax duv/ , '=palatalisation x=velar fric. voiceless.

K:> I think that ought to be /f'i@x/ -- as /f'ax/ would be written <feach>

Actually, we agree on pronunciation. When I wrote this I hadn't looked
at the X-SAMPA IPA representation. Should have written /f'i@x/. [Haven't
a clue where the /a/ came from. Vowel rot ;)].


> It's <fiach> /f'i-ax/ with two syllables in OI, and SG keeps the
> hiatus writing it with an unhistorical (and silent) <th> : fitheach.
Old Irish is rather a mystery to me actually. Can you tell that there's
a hiatus there from the orthography, or because of the <th> in the SG?
In IG "fitheach" would be /f'ihax/. I guess that's more or less the same
as saying there's a hiatus, except that I would expect /th/ to be realised
- e.g. at the start of a word - as  a breathing /h/ rather than nothing
or /?/. So "thosaigh mé" (I began) -> /hVsiGme:/. Same in SG?


> > > Actually 'fiach' alone seems to mean 'raven', as in the phrase "comh
> > > dubh leis an bhfiach"
> I seem to remember a (Gaelic?) proverb along the lines of "Although the
> raven is black, she still thinks her children beautiful"
> Ged is dubh am fitheach ...
Yes I don't recall it but I saw it - or rather the IG version of it
- the other night on a matchbox [a common brand here has a proverb
in Irish and an English translation below it. Sometimes they have to
have a third line explaining in English what the proverb actually
means ;)].

Stephen Mulraney