Re: A short passage.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:54:50 -0000, Kinetic <kinetic_wab@...> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...>
> Poster:       Kinetic <kinetic_wab@...>
> Subject:      Re: A short passage.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> B. Garcia votuala:
>
> > I'd sent this early this morning but it didn't seem to make it to the
> > list for some reason (I checked the archives). So, here it is again.
>
> Looks like it finally came through - I got the original just over two
> hours after receiving this one.  :-)
>
>
> > I wasn't sure how to translate "will be condemned to die" exactly
> > since Ayhan lacks any sort of verb for "to be". My best guess was the
> > "causative" affix for the verbs, which is usually used for saying
> > "caused something to happen". This was a lot trickier than I thought.
>
> After reading your post I decided to do a translation into my own lang,
> Kontaxta, and the issue you describe is tackled in much the same way:
>
> I took the verb "to die" ("mute"), and made use of a handy verb of mine,
> "ahkoe" ("to move uncontrollably, inescapably"), which is generally used
> to express being "doomed" in one way or another:
>
>     muteni ahkoe          "to move inescapably towards dying"
>                           i.e. "to be doomed to die"
>
> Then I put this in the causative:
>
>     muteni ahkoanou       "to cause to be doomed to die"
>                           i.e. "to condemn to death"
>
> Then into the passive:
>
>     muteni ahkoanouseu    "to be made to be doomed to die"
>                           i.e. "to be condemned to death"
>
> This seemed to fit the original quite well. :-)
>
Hey, that's neat. Better than I came up with :)

>
> Interesting idea.  What about, say, a vegetable accidentally unearthed
> by an animal?  Is that "natural" because its state is as yet uninfluenced
> by human actions, or is it "unnatural" because being unearthed is an
> unnatural state for a vegetable?
Ooh, i should've mentioned that unnaturalness means it's been
manipulated by some sort of being that can consciously move something,
or alter it (gods, spririts, people, animals are all included in this)

See, this is how verbs get tricky in ayhan. A speaker has to consider
different variables.

A vegetable in the ground = natural-animate
A vegetable removed =unnatural-animate

So your example, it's the latter.

But, when cut up for food or ripped apart by an animal it then becomes
unnatural-inanimate, because the vegetable is doomed to die :). Then
again, if it's dug up, ripped apart, and then buried (depending on
what it is, like a leafy green vs. a tuber), it could become
unnatural-animate (in the case of tubers, as these will resprout), or
stay unnatural-inanimate (in the case of say, a leafy green).

Machines, while they can move, need the hand of man to operate them,
or get them going so they belong in the unnatural-inanimate class.


>
> Anyway, before I go, I'm gonna take this opportunity to offer my
> Kontaxta translation for the extract in question:
>
> þa mutanoule tou koðuale tou eðiaqe vÿøsale ma, mutali vÿsei telen
> kÿsÿnuven nøðeu.  hiþoyua etuyase ka eki teula, luvoate kortaqi
> xivaken sia sÿlote kokulen vona muteni ahkoanouseule.
>
> you die-CAU-FUT incl_or steal-FUT incl_or old_one-DIR damage-FUT NEG,
> death-of danger have-GER begin-NEG-GER so_that.  this-law disobey C2A
> every person, river-in stone-with drown-GER excl_or water-in boil-GER
> because die-GER-to be_doomed-CAU-PAS-FUT.
>
Very cool, I like that a lot, and I like how Kontaxta looks.

A goal of mine would be to translate all of the Code of Kalantiaw. But
it's a lot of work!

--
Inu payangyara unamey ati tal amariey ka sey, payangyara kria?
Yanaysatra sonataya atan inu jumoey ati atan matawsara jumoey ati.

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