Re: 'noun' and 'adjective' (fuit: To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang?)
|From:||R A Brown <ray@...>|
|Date:||Saturday, March 4, 2006, 21:49|
Mark J. Reed wrote:
> IML, "apple and blackberry pie" can only mean one pie with both apples
> and blackberries in its filling.
I assumed when Andreas replied with: "Er, we can do the same in Swedish
- _äppel- och björnbärspaj_ " that he meant that the Swedish 'äppel- och
björnbärspaj' means exactly the same as 'apple & blackberry pie' in
English, i.e. a pie filled with apple & blackberries. But......
> On 3/4/06, Carsten Becker <carbeck@...> wrote:[snip]
>>Well, in German there's _Apfel- und Brombeerpastete_ as
>>well -- if it's about one pie made of apples and another one
>>made of blackberries. And if it's just one pie made of both
>>fruits, it's of course _Apfel-Brombeer-Pastete_.
Now that is helpful, I think, in pointing up the difference between the
German compound and the analytical English construct. 'Apple &
blackberry pie' means Apfel-Brombeer-Pastete_, and the German is clearly
a compound (in a similar way to what is found in Greek, for example) and
does not require a word for 'and' as, apparently, the Swedish does (if
indeed Andreas' Swedish does mean the same as my English).
But the German _Apfel- und Brombeerpastete_ is possible because the pie
words must be compounds and we can 'understand' the first Apfel- as the
first part of a compound. But if we have two pies with different
fillings we must say 'an apple pie and a blackberry pie'. If someone
were to say "They are apple & blackberry pies" s/he would be
misunderstood; it would mean that both pies had the same filling: apples
I think a meditation on the German & English versions will help
understand the difference between the German usage & the English one:
Apfelpastete = apple pie
Apfel-Brombeer-Pastete = an apple & blackberry pie
Apfel- und Brombeerpastete = an apple pie & a blackberry pie
MAKE POVERTY HISTORY