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Re: 'noun' and 'adjective' (fuit: To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang?)

From:R A Brown <ray@...>
Date:Saturday, March 4, 2006, 21:49
Mark J. Reed wrote:
> IML, "apple and blackberry pie" can only mean one pie with both apples > and blackberries in its filling.
Absolutely! I assumed when Andreas replied with: "Er, we can do the same in Swedish - _äppel- och björnbärspaj_ " that he meant that the Swedish 'äppel- och björnbärspaj' means exactly the same as 'apple & blackberry pie' in English, i.e. a pie filled with apple & blackberries. But......
> On 3/4/06, Carsten Becker <carbeck@...> wrote:
>> >>Well, in German there's _Apfel- und Brombeerpastete_ as >>well -- if it's about one pie made of apples and another one >>made of blackberries. And if it's just one pie made of both >>fruits, it's of course _Apfel-Brombeer-Pastete_.
Now that is helpful, I think, in pointing up the difference between the German compound and the analytical English construct. 'Apple & blackberry pie' means Apfel-Brombeer-Pastete_, and the German is clearly a compound (in a similar way to what is found in Greek, for example) and does not require a word for 'and' as, apparently, the Swedish does (if indeed Andreas' Swedish does mean the same as my English). But the German _Apfel- und Brombeerpastete_ is possible because the pie words must be compounds and we can 'understand' the first Apfel- as the first part of a compound. But if we have two pies with different fillings we must say 'an apple pie and a blackberry pie'. If someone were to say "They are apple & blackberry pies" s/he would be misunderstood; it would mean that both pies had the same filling: apples and blackberries. I think a meditation on the German & English versions will help understand the difference between the German usage & the English one: Apfelpastete = apple pie Apfel-Brombeer-Pastete = an apple & blackberry pie Apfel- und Brombeerpastete = an apple pie & a blackberry pie -- Ray ================================== ================================== MAKE POVERTY HISTORY