Re: Gender (was: Homosexuality and gender identity)

Christophe wrote:


> >   There is a running dispute among Americans
> >about the propriety of saying "guys" about a group of women, given that
> >"guy", singular, is certainly male; some people like it, some don't.
I like it, but use it mainly to people at least a generation younger, and
it's meant to be humorous.  With contemporaries (or older) it's still masc.
only.  By default, "you guys" is how I sometimes spoke to the lesbian couple
I was friendly with; but otherwise (not to their faces) they were "the
girls".
>
> You girls?! ;)))) (or "You dolls", as I've seen quite often the expression
> "guys and dolls" in the spam I receive on my hotmail address ;))) )
>
Careful there!!! We live in dangerous times :-)))  Some women/groups of
women don't like being called "girls" by a male....."ladies" is now quite
formal (and also somewhat stigmatized, considered trivializing), and "women"
seems to be the default.

"Doll(s)" as generic direct address has always been slangy and rather
disrespectful. (OK only to your girlfriend/lover)  Broad, dame, honey are
right out, and in general always have been

Way back in the early 70s, Robin Lakoff was already pointing out these
changes in usage.  My favorite examples:

What do you call a poet who is female?  Poetess is archaic, lady poet
trivializes, woman poet is OK but awkward-- and why specify it anyway?

"When Joe got out of prison, the first thing he did was look for a woman /
!!*lady"

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