Re: Which auxlangs? (was Re: I won't start a flame war)

At 12:31 am -0800 10/11/99, Charles wrote:
>Raymond Brown wrote:
>
>> Why do we have to bring the petty & pointless politics of auxlang onto this
>> list?
>
>I think you may have missed the first few postings.
>It is gradually developing into an annoying argument about
>which auxlang should be left out.
Why should this be annoying, if tackled objectively?

Clearly to include _every_ auxlang is not viable.  There are enough to fill
a T-shirt by themselves.  And new comes continually appear.  For practical
reasons, there has to be a limit.

>If Occidental is included,
>I won't mind which others are also. I also suggested several
>other good options.
<Yawn> Am I back on auxlang?  "Ok, if you include my favorite auxlang, but
if you don't ........"

[...]
>
>Esperanto is now a major competitor among auxlangs.
Seems to me a very long way behind English, French, Spanish, Arabic,
Swahili, Indonesian etc which are actively used as IALs by millions of
people every day.

>I'd rather not see it advertised above the others.
Oh, I thought the only thing the T-shirt was intended to advertize was
_constructed languages_.

Esperanto is a constructed language and, what is more, the one that most
non-conlangers have heard of. To omit it would, I think, strike many
"outsiders" as odd & if the reason were given, it would IMHO appear to such
people as an act of pettiness.  Is this T-shirt meant to put people off
conlaning, or what?

>Volapuk and Solresol are safely dead and noncontroversial.
Volapuk us not dead - there are people who still use it.  I'd guess it has
at least as many active users as Occidental, possibly more.

In any case, languages can always be revived.  The modern Cornish
revivalists have proved that, as have the Israelis in making Hebrew the
language of their country.

From a conlang point of view I can see nothing more & nothing less
controversial about Solresol & Volapuk than I can about Esperanto.
>
>> To omit it from a list of conlangs is IMHO simply ignoring history and
>> being petty minded.
>
>Well, I'm asking for Occ to be present, then I have no problem.
>There are only about 6 auxlangs in contention, so I'd like to see
>all 6 or none.
Who says there are about 6?  I can think off eight straight off the top of
my head, and I know well there are more.

[...]
>> To ignore conIALs entirely seems to me a cop out.  They do form an
>> interesting variety of conlangs.  To have Solresol as the representative of
>> a_priori type, Volapuk as a 'mixed type', Esperanto as early a_posteriori &
>> Ekspesso of more recent a_posteriori seems entirely reasonable to me.
>
>Well, why not include Glosa, Occ, and Ido? They all have active lists
>(I'm on them) and deserve a place. Interlingua too. Add Eo, that's 5.
Presumably because the T-shirt can't contain all the world's conlangs -
unless it's a mighty big one that keeps on growing.  The proposal to
include all the active conlangs of members of this list seems eminently
sensible & to make sure _representative examples_ of important conlang
types are included seems to me also sensible.

Don's proposal about the _representative_ sample of auxlang seemed to me
objectively sensible & well reasoned.  I go along with it.

I note that Don had no problem in leaving out his favorite conIAL.

>> Heck - if we can't discuss these reasonably and objectively on this list,
>> without getting into the petty-minded politics of auxlang, then I think I
>> might keep to a list where this can be done.
>
>My opinion is valid as yours or anyone else's, and I will exercise it.
I've no doubt you will.

But as I don't want to promote a flame war, I'll shut & rest my case.

Ray.

PS - Hey, how about a dedicated auxlang T-Shirt?
Bet it would be like the one Deianeira gave Herakles  :-D





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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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