Re: écagne, and ConLand names in translation (was: RE: R V: Old English)

Gkhisdof Gghasqigh[*] (Christophe Grandsire):

[Paul Roser has pointed out to me that the "Gkhanqigh" in my previous
message was erroneous.]

> At 03:40 31/03/00 +0100, you wrote:
> >>
> >> "écagne" is a rather strange word, it sounds more Southern French than
> >> Northern French. I wouldn't be surprised if it was used only in the
> >> Provence (or maybe in the Basque Country too).
> >
> >Why?
> >
>
> Merely a native speaker's intuition. It sounds like a word from the South
> of France or from the countryside. I have no dictionnary at hand to check
> whether it is regional or not...
What is meant to ask is: what is the basis for your intuition?

> >ObConlang:
> >1. The ConLand Tsxunrcaa [t s^x u n ! a:] is known in Latin as
> >_Scungria_. I have suggested that in traditional English it was _Scunger_,
> >though these days it is known as _Scungria_, and in French it is _écongre_.
> >But I can't recall my reasoning, and I now wonder whether _Scungry_ and
> >_écongrie_ are likelier outcomes. What do you think?
> >
>
> _Econgrie_ is likelier in French, yes. It doesn't sound nice (a little
> countryside talk maybe) but it is the normal evolution of the Latin word
> (if the French kept it, which is not always the case).
"Scungria" doesn't sound nice in English either, but then Scungric phonology
is even more 'robust' (in the manner of caucasian lgs) than Livagian.

> >3. Livagia is [lyxaag(@)] in Livagian. Latin _Livagia_, traditional English
> >_Lifay_, _(the) Lifays_, _the Lifay isles_ (pronounced /'laifi/, from
> >Old English) and _Livagy_ (Middle and Early Modern English), though nowadays
> >_Livagia_, and French _Livage_. Also _Lyacia_ as a name for the place
> >rather than the nation; also, _Lyac-_ is to _Livagia(n) rather as
> >_Sin-_ is to _China/Chinese_. Also _Lychagia_, as a cultural entity. What
> >would _Lyacia_ and _Lychagia_ be in French?
> >
>
> _Lyacie_ or _Lyace_ are likely outcomes, maybe the second one would be more
> likely, but analogy could make _Lyacie_. I don't know for _Lychagia_, no
> outcome of it sounds nice to me.
Is there no regular outcome of such a form? In English it has to be
/lI'keidZ@/.

> >4. _Lyacia_ and _Lychagia_ are from earlier (1st millen BC, maybe earlier)
> and
> >later (early 1st millen AD) Greek respectively. I don't know whether
> >Scungrians had direct contacts with Greece, but Greeks would at any rate have
> >known of Scungria through contact with Livagians. So what would they have
> >called Scungria? In Livagian it is [tsku N^! aa] <dsgurxaa>. In Greek, would
> >it be _Skungr-_, or _Skoungr-_? Or something else? If _Skungr-_, then, in
> >a pleasant echo of our recent "Scythian" discussion, we would have words
> >based on _Scyngr-_, /sINgr-/. Someone should go and check what Herodotus
> >calls the Scungrians...
> >
>
> _Scyngre_ would be a nice word in French, much more beautiful than
> _Econgrie_. I think it would be more likely to be used, except if there is
> really a reason to forbid that.
Presumably _Scyngre_ would have gained currency in French only post-Renaissance,
so it would have to have ousted _Econgrie_. I'd have thought
that the name of the country would remain _Econgrie_, while poets writing
of exotic remote western isles might use _Scyngre_.

Mind you, it occurs to me that if the Greek was based on either the
Scungric form in [tsxu=] or the Livagian form in [tsku-], the Greek stem
might actually have been _Zungr-_ rather than _Scyngr-. So _Zyngre_,
rather than _Scyngre_. One for Ray or Basileus to arbitrate.

> >5. Scungria, Livagia and the Azores collectively form the geographical entity
> >Hesperonesia. The languages are collectively known as Hesperonesian or
> >Boreatlantic. What would these terms be in French?
> >
>
> _Hespéronésie_ is simple (see _Indonesia_: _Indonésie), and with it
> _Hespéronésien_. _Boréatlantique_ is possible and sounds Okay.
>
> >Translations of these names into other natlangs and conlangs would be
> >delightedly received by me...
> >
>
> I'm gonna try that in a next post :) .
Itakian? You'll have to remind me of its relation to the known world.

--And.