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Re: Ladino Proverbs and Sayings (Waaay long!)

From:FFlores <fflores@...>
Date:Friday, December 10, 1999, 2:45
Nik Taylor <fortytwo@...> wrote:

> andrew wrote:
Very interesting proverbs. I like Ladino!
> > 7. Roba pitas, besa _mesusot_. > > He steals bread, and kisses the mezuzah. >=20 > I like this one, a proverb on hypocricy, I take it?
And what are _pitas_?
> > 17. Paciencia es paz y sciencia > > Patience is peace and wisdom. >=20 > Great pun.
Yes, and you can keep it in Spanish too!
> > 19. La hambre y el frio traen a la puerta del enemigo. > > Cold and hunger bring one to the enemy's door. >=20 > Hmm, I'd thought that Ladino kept the initial /f/'s that Spanish has > lost, but _hambre_ here seems to disprove that.
I have a question here: I know that _hombre_ somehow came from _homo_ (in some inflected form, I guess), and I think _hambre_ is cognate with 'famine' (is it _fame_ in Italian?). Do you know how -br- got in there? (I assume hom-r >> hom-br as usual, but why the -r?) BTW _hambre_ is masculine in Spanish. _La_ becomes _el_ before /a/, but we say _los hambres_.=20
> > 27. Lo das la mano, y quiere el pie. > > Give him an inch and he wants a foot. >=20 > Interesting, _lo_ instead of _le_?
That's common in the speech of certain people here (sound very very uneducated). OTOH Spaniards use _le_ for personal *direct* objects (_le vi_ 'I saw him') while at least Rioplatense has _lo_.
> > 34. Culebra que no mi morde, que viva mil an~os. >=20 > _mi morde_, not _me morde_? Interesting.
(Which would be _muerde_, in fact.)
> > 41. Non mi mires la color, mi'rami la savor. >=20 > There's that _mi_ for _me_ again. Interesting. Interesting, also, tha=
> they've kept _non_
From the Quixote: '=A1Non fuyades, cobardes!' (=3D 'No huy=E1is'). :-)
> > 52. Caras vemos, corazones no conosemos. >=20 > Question: does Ladino distinguish between {z} and {s}? If so, it's > interesting that they have _conosemos_ instead of _conocemos_
There was _conosca_ before, too.
> > 61. Cada uno se arrasca onde le come. >=20 > Ah, kept the old _onde_.
Oh! Was it _onde_ in the first place? _De onde_? Many people say /onde/ nowadays; and _adonde_ tends to become /ande/. It seems we're reiterating the sound change cycle from Latin to Spanish here; the medial voiced stops (already become fricatives) are turning into approximants or disappearing altogether.
> > 65. Bendicha tripa de madre que tal fijo pario'. >=20 > Hmm, why _fijo_ here, but _hija_ in 26?
And _tripa_? You know, the first time I read this I thought this was an insult or something; in my dialect _pario'_ (and to a lesser extent all the forms of _parir_) are considered pretty 'strong' (not rude or taboo, but avoided). You can imagine why (take out _bendicha_ and replace etc. etc.)
>=20 > > 67. Fas el bien, no mires a quien. >=20 > Hmm, interesting, another /f/ retained.
And another <s> for <z> (or <c> or <=E7>).
> > 85. Los fijos al rubi', el marido al tcharchi'. >=20 > Why is it spelt _tcharchi'_?
And what is it? Very interesting indeed! --Pablo Flores